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Post by Harkovast on Nov 22, 2016 21:58:56 GMT
There exist, as a thing, feminists who hate men. I mean thats demonstrable, we can all be agreed they are out there. Some of these feminsits who hate men probably read Mary Sue. I mean just by the law of averages thats going to be the case.
If I went and found a message board where a load of man hating women mentioned how they like the Mary Sue and then made an article titled- "Why do so many Mary Sue readers hate men?" Would you think that maybe I was trying to smear Mary Sue?
I mean I think that would be an obvious smear tactic on my part. The fact those women hate men and also read Mary Sue does not mean that Mary Sue is connected to man hating (I havent read there every article, btu I am assuming not). The fact I phrase the question that way immediately implies a connection.
If then said during the article that after i heard a news story abotu a crazy extreme feminist attacking a man or something that I got mad at Mary Sue, wouldnt that imply that I actually DO think man hating and Mary Sue are connected?
Now I think that would be a shady, dishonest, sleazy tactic to smear Mary Sue and I wouldn't do it. But that's exactly what they just did about 40K fans.
I can find my little pony pictures of nazi ponys (thats a real thing) so should I put out an article abotu why so many bronies are nazis? Or would that be misleading and wrong? Cause i think it would be.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 22, 2016 22:10:15 GMT
By that logic "many" Hillary supporters are violent. Ive seen videos of dozens of them rioting.
"Many" MLP fans like nazis because there are loads of pictures of nazi ponys.
"Many" feminists hate men, becuase i can easily look up numerous articles by nut cases arguing that.
I could says "many" black men are violent. I mean there are loads of black poeple that have committed violent crimes, arent' there? yes thats a percentage of the population and other races do violence too, but what I said initially is technically correct.
See how misleading that sounds? No, technically its not saying all or a majority, but when you say many people assume you mean many as in as partof hte whole. if I saiad "many crimes occur in the city" and then it turned out it was 10 over a year and I said "well if ten happened to you you would think it was many" technically what I said was true. "Many" is a vague term but I think acting in good faith when we say that people assume we mean a large part of the whole set.
So yeah, I guess "many" 40K fans are facist. But by that logic "many" people who read books are facist. there are more facists that read books then facists that play 40k. almost all facists have read a book! Its SOOOO many. But as a percentage of book readers, its fuck all.
I think to pretend that the choice of words here doesn't imply a large or significant part of the overall group is disingenious.
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Post by StyxD on Nov 22, 2016 22:12:51 GMT
I questioned his credentions in response to Canuovea lording them up. Canuovea said he was a big fan to proive hes legit, so i questioned if he really is. Now StyxD is are recharacterising that as me leaping in going hes not a true fan so ignore him. I fail to see how this is relevant. The guy says in the article that he's a fan. You say: He is the stereotypical SJW, pretending to be a fan of something so he can insult the fan base. He's almost a self parody. There is nothing more that needs adding. It's kind of amusing that you immediately switched to 4chan style of debate, too, posting wall of text after wall of text repeating the same things.
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Post by Canuovea on Nov 22, 2016 22:15:11 GMT
The link to fascism in /pol/ and 40k is pretty clear. But that isn't the point of the article. Or not the main point.
The idea is that being a fascist and being a 40k fan seems to be a contradiction. The article explores why this is not the case, or rather, why people don't realize the contradiction.
Though I was wrong about one thing, there is another problem with the article: The title. It is definitely "clickbaity" and conveys very little about the actual article.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 22, 2016 22:32:32 GMT
StyxD as I said, Canuovea said the guy was a big 40K fan to prove the guy was not attacking the fandom. I then questioned if the guy really was. Cnauovea made the guys dedication to 40K an issue, not me. So its okay to say someone is a big fan and thus we should trust them? But wrong to then disagree with the idea that they are as big a fan as they claim? Is that some kind of untouchable argument? Once you delcare someone is a true fan I have to just accept that and go "yeah ya got me"
The communist party of America endorsed Hillary Clinton. They are clearly true Hillary fans who agree with all her proposal. BAM! Hillary is now tied to the communists. Dont try to tell me that dont really agree iwth everything she said, how dare you question if they are real fans? Thats not allowed.
Canuovea raised a point, and I disagreed.
The fact I sound like someone you dont like means NOTHING to me. Hitler built motorways in Germany. If I say I want nice roads am I a Nazi?
Pretending to be a big fan of something as cover for attacing it is something SJW types get accused of, I was commenting that this guy is playing up to that stereotype, because his knowledge of the game seems to be largely 20 years out of date. I was actually expressing surprise at someone fitting that cliche.
Canuovea the article seems full of weasel words and implications. He dances aroudn the point and makes innuendo and shows pictures of memes nad tries to act like this indicates a meaningful trend. The guys motives are click baity I'm sure, but that doesnt make it okay to throw around insinuations. No I dont think people are doing to form a hate mob against 40K or anything (Mary Sue is a shitty site without much influence on anything) but its still dickish to make implications like that. Its misleading if nothing else, and at worst serves to further undermine progressivism.
It feels like alienating people has becomea badge of honour. "I know, lets imply 40K players are facists, without quite coming out and saying it as such, that will help boost social jsutice!"
People (like me) read this and think "Bullshit! This is both crazy and insulting!" It just further undermines a movement that is already getting horribly discredited.
If you see stuff like this and go "yep looks fine to me" then you dont really have room to cry foul when more and more people reject progressive ideas. People don't like getting nasty things implied about them. It might draw people to click on your article, buts its going to drive them away from your movement. Saying "well TECHNICALLY it didn't insult YOU specifically..." is kinda weak sauce.
Do /pol/ people even like facism? I mean I hear they are racist but thats not facism. You can love democracy and be a huge racist. Donald Trump isn't a facist (at least not at the minute, maybe he will do a take over in the future in which case you read it here first folks). Do /pol/ call for an end of democracy and a return to the values of Facist Italy? I am guessing not so much. Even taking your version of what the article means to say it doesnt' make much sense.
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Post by Canuovea on Nov 23, 2016 6:09:40 GMT
Wait, Trump isn't a fascist? Nationalism (to the point he hugged the flag...), Militarism, Ego to the point of Fuhrerism/cult of personality, Populism, even his attitude towards trade agreements... Could have fooled me.
Anyway... It seems to me you are looking for implications where there are none intended.
As for weakening progressivism... maybe, maybe not.
I still think that this is a silly thing to get angry about, but I do see where the implication could be read from. Nonetheless, that still seems to be missing the actual point of the article, so that people get so worked up about that is kind of disheartening.
And sure, /pol/ isn't a unified front... probably. But it is usually super into that ultranationalism and apparently use the swastika as their symbol.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 23, 2016 17:58:39 GMT
I guess we are just viewing this through a very differnet prism, so that its hard to understand the other's point of view.
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Post by Canuovea on Nov 23, 2016 20:57:02 GMT
Whether that is true or not, you are still getting distracted from the main point of the article, even IF you're right about him sniping at 40k fans.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 23, 2016 21:18:36 GMT
You are telling me the whole point of the article is how poeple on /pol/ boards are facists and love 40K.
/pol/ is mentioned only twice in the article. The first mention is at the end of the 10th paragraph.
What you are syaing seems bizzare to me. I just think our points of reference are so far apart hre that the whole conversation is kinda meaningless. Its like that thing about how if a lion could speak english, we wouldn't be able to understand him. The basic assumptions here are completely disconnected.
I'm not saying you are wrong becuase of that, just that i don't think we're getting anywhere.
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Post by Canuovea on Nov 23, 2016 21:22:39 GMT
He spends most of the time showing that Warhammer 40k is not pro-fascist and then attempts to explain why there are fascists who seem to like it and glorify it. You said that "he doesn't even prove that 40k fans are fascist" and he doesn't really, because that's not the point of the article. The point of the article relies on the fact that some 40k fans are fascist, but that is not in and of itself the point.
Well, I give up anyway.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 23, 2016 21:28:42 GMT
If what you are saying is correct I honestly have no idea what the point is supposed to be. The article must be very badly written for the meaning to be so well concealed.
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Post by Canuovea on Nov 23, 2016 21:39:22 GMT
Maybe. It could just be that I have a reflexive twitch that causes me to hunt for what the thesis of an article is no matter how obscured by shit it is.
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Post by Harkovast on Nov 23, 2016 22:15:30 GMT
Or that you just like to disagree with me!
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Post by Malvinall on Jun 13, 2022 16:58:13 GMT
Or that you just like to disagree with me! You sound fucking retarded.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2022 19:03:50 GMT
It wouldn't be the first time. I gave up talking about politics on here a few years ago. Everyone gets mad, no one changes their minds, it is all completely pointless.
None of us have any real power to influence these things anyway.
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