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Post by Horsie on Apr 18, 2016 4:54:54 GMT
You could probably throw one together without too much trouble. How much are they going for?
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 18, 2016 5:12:57 GMT
Prices very greatly based on condition, rarity, etc. A p-1878 short lever infantry rifle untouched can be had for under 200 bucks, but it will be very rough and missing a few parts. Others can go for up to 700 bucks.
IMA also sells cleaned and complete MH for 800 to 1000 bucks. Which is also not bad for complete rifles.
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Post by Horsie on Apr 18, 2016 5:17:24 GMT
That's a lot more than what they go for around here, but I suppose that makes sense given that Martini-Henrys probably aren't particularly common in the US.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 18, 2016 5:32:51 GMT
British rifles are a bit tough to come by for cheap in the US, and US antiques are outrageous. Remington Rolling blocks will set you back a first born.
Though I did discover that Remington .22 long rolling blocks are really cheap since they suffer from the same drawbacks that Flobert gallery guns do. No serial number and no ability to date them accurately.
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Post by Horsie on Apr 18, 2016 6:08:35 GMT
What do Lee-Enfields cost when you see them? We seem to be swimming in them around here, although the price has been going up over the past few years as people have started taking interest in old military rifles that haven't been sporerized. Around here a No.1Mk.3 in excellent condition would probably cost $350 to $400 US (although they may cost more if you're looking for certain rarer or more desirable versions).
The other day I saw a mint condition Martini-Henry with matching parts for about $800US.
I'm kind of surprised that US antiques cost so much, I would think they'd be a bit more reasonable given that you're in the US, where most of those firearms would be. Is it that there's just a really high demand? I know I tend to see that with some military firearms that were made here, there's a greater interest in them and so they tend to cost more, but even then the prices seem to be lower than for American antiques.
I saw some trapdoor Springfields the other day that were in good shape (I was surprised to see several, until Saturday I think I've seen only 1 at a gun show in the past 4 years), they were going for between $850 and $1200 US.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 18, 2016 7:59:08 GMT
You have to remember that the US didn't really keep a standing army during peacetime until the 20th century. Most antique military rifles are foreign, even the ones made in the US were mostly shipped overseas. Remington in particular was almost bankrupted by the US military when they placed a huge order for rolling blocks at the end of the Civil War and then said "Nah, we don't need em no more", leaving Remington with a huge pile of guns nobody wanted. They all got sold overseas at bargain prices. The military also didn't have a habit of storing rifles in peacetime, excess weaponry found their way into foreign wars and militias. So all those antique guns have to find their way back here before they can get bought.
At that time the civilians weren't very interested in breech loading singles since levers were all the rage. Not to mention many of them already had a single and a revolver left over from the war, which they brutalized into uselessness from overuse and/or neglect.
There's also the "newer is better" mindset that is very typical in the US. Antique firearm collecting was very niche for a long time, which tends to drive the prices up somewhat since folks that buy them are typically willing to pay more anyway. Now that more people are getting into it that just makes it worse.
Lee's are all over the place. A few years ago 700 to 900 was the going rate, even for junk, now they're down to 500 or so for a nice one. I think part of it had to do with the ammo shortage a few years back. People were looking for firearms that matched the ammunition they could find. .303 was available so folks were looking for guns to match.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 18, 2016 14:18:21 GMT
I was doing some more thinking...
Lever action .357 mag and .44 mag rifles are very popular.
Tube fed .22 LR semi autos are also very popular.
How come nobody ever made a semi auto .357 or .44 mag with a tube feed magazine?
Ruger sorta made something like that. The model 99/44 and much later the Deerfield Carbine. Both did poorly due to the rotary magazine's low capacity (4 rounds) that couldn't compete with a lever's 8 to 10 round mag. A tube mag would completely eliminate that drawback, plus the gun would function better from a rest.
Why do I have to come up with all the fuckin ideas?
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Post by Horsie on Apr 18, 2016 15:03:59 GMT
That makes sense, I suppose, I just don't understand how people could not be interested in old guns, but I'm biased.
I can't imagine Lee-Enfields selling for that much, that'd be insane around here!
I tried to Google semi-auto rifles in .357 and .44, and all I could find were references to Ruger rifles, it doesn't actually sound like anyone has made a semi-auto in those calibres other than Ruger.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 18, 2016 20:00:39 GMT
I tried to Google semi-auto rifles in .357 and .44, and all I could find were references to Ruger rifles, it doesn't actually sound like anyone has made a semi-auto in those calibres other than Ruger. And Ruger only made those in .44 mag. Right now they do have the 77/44 and the 77/357, but they're bolt actions and they still suffer from the low capacity of the rotary mag. Still, these guns are finding a bit of a following in the hunting community because their introduction happened to coincide with some easing of rifle restrictions in certain parts of the US. A lot of places that typically only allowed shotguns for hunting deer have relented slightly to allow rifles providing they shoot a pistol caliber. Typically something in the .357 mag to .480 Ruger range. The 77/44 is popular with folks who want something a little more modern than a Model 92, and since hunting regulations usually limit drop out mags to 4 or 5 rounds the magazine isn't really an issue. On the other hand, fixed mags like you find on a lever almost never have capacity limits, presumably a tube mag on a semi auto wouldn't either. So you would have the magazine benefit of a lever action plus no need to work an action which will make it more difficult to keep the gun on target for follow up shots. It's kind of a niche market, but it's a completely barren niche.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 19, 2016 4:59:29 GMT
Made an interesting find at a local pawn shop. Turns out they had a Calico. An M100 in .22lr. They wanted 450 bucks for it. I really wanted to buy it but I was hesitant to support a pawn shop that makes a habit of ripping off the locals. I also wasn't sure if it was a newer one or a pre ban one. I'm fairly certain it was a pre ban which makes it really old and suspect in functionality.
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Post by Horsie on Apr 19, 2016 8:10:38 GMT
I suppose so, it'd definitely be a niche market though.
I know we do have capacity limits for hunting, although I think in the case of firearms that have a magazine capacity greater than the hunting capacity (3 for waterfowl, 5 for everything else) it's fine as long as you aren't caught with more than the legal limit in the mag.
I didn't know they made Calicos more recently, when did they stop?
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 19, 2016 8:56:16 GMT
The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban outlawed magazines with a capacity higher than 10 rounds. Since Calico's entire line was super high capacity firearms, and that was their only real selling point, the ban pretty much ruined the company. It limped along for years selling parts for their guns already in circulation, getting acquired by several different companies along the way. Even after the ban was lifted the company never really got back on it's feet. According to their site they still manufacture their trademark .22 lr and 9mm carbines and pistols, but I'm inclined to believe they only have the capacity to manufacture a handful of them a year. There's hints at a .40 cal weapon to be made available soon, but that's been on their site for a couple years now without a product to show for it. I'm pretty sure their bread and butter is still parts and improvement to their pre ban guns.
Interestingly, Glock managed to thrive during the ban years by planning ahead. They manufactured warehouses full of magazines for their pistols prior to the ban so they'd get grandfathered as "pre-ban". They also got police and military to sell back their magazines when they upgraded their arsenals to refurbish and sell those mags as used pre-ban. This also explains why Glock has been so resistant to updating their product lines since so many of their old mags are in circulation.
I donno. I really shouldn't spend 450 bucks on a gun right now. On the other hand, I may not get another opportunity to buy a Calico. Even if it's a piece of junk it's still historically significant and probably collectable. Maybe if I can talk em down to 400 I'll get it.
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Post by Horsie on Apr 19, 2016 15:30:26 GMT
That's pretty clever. I don't like Glocks at all, but they're good pistols.
I'm surprised helical mags haven't seen more use since they don't add much to the weapon's size given the capacity, the Russians have a couple of SMGs with 60-odd round mags that act as handguards.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 20, 2016 10:54:05 GMT
Helical mags do have the benefit of being able to be mounted horizontally so you end up with a very streamlined firearm. You don't have the wideness of a drum or pancake mag or the height of a stick mag. But they do have a lot of internal components that might break or bind. We sure do take over this thread with our gun talk. Let's talk knives for a moment. Cuz I bought a new knife. The SCHF36 is part of a line of survival/camp knives that Schrade is offering. It's a quality knife at a bargain bin price. I got this one for about 25 bucks from Budk. The blade is about 5 inches with an overall length of slightly over 10. It's full tang 1095 carbon steel with a powder coating. It's very hefty for the size. About 1/4th of an inch thick. I was attracted to this knife because of the thickness of the blade. It feels like something you could really abuse the hell out of and it would keep coming back for more. It has a hollow grind, so despite it's thickness it has a reasonable bevel that isn't a nightmare to try and sharpen. It came out of the box serviceable in sharpness, but as always it could be improved with a little work. It comes with a sharpening stone, but it's in the medium/course grit range. Fine for a one swipe touch up in the field but not good for refining the edge. Really the stone is probably better for an axe than a knife. It also comes with a ferro rod for starting fires. Surprisingly it's a very good rod and throws tons of hot sparks. Sometimes those thrown in rods are just junk. The knife has a good balance with the center being dead at the guard. It would probably throw very nicely. The finger choil lets you choke up on the blade comfortably for finer work. The rubber scales could be better. They're not as grippy as I was hoping. Could wrap it with grip tape or even replace the scales with something else since they can be easily removed. The powder coating is something the knife could do without. I get that it's there to keep it from rusting but the coating is somewhat sandpaperish. I read somewhere that someone recommended knocking it down with a green scrubby, but I might just buff it off completely. While the blade design seems very good for camp chores like whittling, fire starting, and even splitting kindling with a baton, it's not a defensive knife. It does have a drop point/spearish shape, but the tip isn't presented well for stabbing, it's really more of a skinning blade. What's more if you did happen to get a good stab the finger choil will likely snag and pull the knife from your hand. This isn't really a criticism, just a note for anyone that happens to be looking for that "Rambo" knife for fighting bears, this isn't it. The sheath is, well, a sheath. It has some interesting features such as a Velcro adjustable retention snap and a Velcro belt loop that allows you to put it on without removing your belt, but it's mostly just a place to put your knife, sharpening stone, and ferro rod. I'd much rather have a nice pretty leather sheath.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 21, 2016 8:39:21 GMT
I'm setting up that knife as a "worst case scenario" knife. Turns out that little pouch in front has elastic on it and if I toss the sharpener out it has a lot of room for little bits of survival gear. Along with the ferro rod I could prolly jam one of those emergency blankets, some aspirin, some iodine tablets, some monofilament, a few fish hooks, needles, thread, some cotton balls, tweezers, and maybe a couple other things. I could wrap the sheath with a few dozen feet of paracord and maybe even lash a small flashlight to it.
Toss it in the trunk of my car so if I need it I got at least the bare minimum for survival in a bad situation.
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