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Post by Horsie on Mar 22, 2019 5:53:38 GMT
It sure wobbles around in flight, though I suppose you couldn't make a stiffer dart without using a material that's too heavy to be useable.
What do you think of the Winchester 1885? I had a look at a brand new low wall in .17 WSM the other day, it was a beautiful rifle, really substantial, but I'm not sure I'd want to spend $2K after tax on a rimfire.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 22, 2019 17:52:22 GMT
The flexing of the dart is by design. An atlatl gains initial power from the dart getting bent by the force of the thrower and trying to straighten out at release. Though I think it's a little bit over pronounced in the Carbon Express dart, ideally I think it's supposed to be a little stiffer so it wobbles less in fight. This is probably just a case of the company simply taking their standard arrow shaft and making a new product out of it instead of designing a new shaft specifically for use as a dart.
The 1885 is nice, but I think the No. 1 is better looking. Probably side by side there wouldn't be a dime's worth of difference between them as far as performance.
A falling block seems like a system that you'd want something heavier than a .17. Like a .45-70 or something.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 22, 2019 19:20:38 GMT
I never thought about that, I suppose you wouldn't get nearly as much out of it if it was stiff, you may as well just use a throwing spear in that case.
The Winchester is also offered in .17HMR, .22mag, and .22LR among others, the high wall version is the one that comes in all the big calibres.
I've always liked the idea of a falling block, I'm really fond of all my tilting block guns (two .22LR target rifles, a .303, and a 12gauge shotgun), but I'm pretty sure the falling block design is a lot stronger, not that I need it, but there's something really appealing about an action that's practically a solid piece of metal when it's closed up.
The Ruger does look nicer though.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 22, 2019 20:03:29 GMT
I really like these Accuracy International rifles, I've never had the opportunity to handle one myself, but AI rifles are available in Canada, although they're really expensive (starting at around $6K+tax).
They're really functional and well designed, which is good, because they're not pretty.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 24, 2019 16:01:47 GMT
Is that really a "forgotten" weapon?
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Post by Horsie on Mar 24, 2019 17:26:57 GMT
No, but he's covered plenty of modern weapons are certainly aren't forgotten.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 24, 2019 20:48:37 GMT
Here's something from this year's SHOT show.
The Winchester 350 Legend was so secret only Winchester firearms are slated to be made for it. Although I expect it should gain in popularity fairly quickly since as a straight walled cartridge it will function in an AR and is legal for hunting deer in most US states. It's supposed to have less than half the recoil impulse of the .450 Bushmaster but with a higher velocity and flatter trajectory. It also double stacks in the standard AR mag instead of single stacks like the .450.
Since the 350 Legend is basically just a 5.56 case with the neck cut off and a .357 bullet jammed in (basically the wildcat .357 rimless mag with a little more omph), the cost per round is expected to be very low, which will make it attractive to casual shooters as well as hunters.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 24, 2019 21:26:41 GMT
That could be interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on it.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 25, 2019 3:11:43 GMT
Interestingly the case length is almost as long as the 5.56. So this isn't just a cut case, the neck is blown out. It also needs a slightly modified magazine since the straight walls go beyond the neck where the standard magazine has indent to help align the shells. In most other respects it should function with any AR upper and lower configuration.
The recoil on the 350 is supposed to be even less than the .243
Which is surprising considering its downrange energy.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 25, 2019 4:08:01 GMT
I wonder how they got that?
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 25, 2019 4:14:10 GMT
I'm a little confused by those claims too. A larger bore should equal more recoil with equal energy output. This has less with more output. Seems a bit weird.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 25, 2019 4:21:14 GMT
I'm not sure I'm going to believe it until enough people are out there using it and vouching for that claim.
I've never used .243, but I'm looking at the Hornady site and the heaviest bullet weight they have for that calibre is 108gr, while that box of .350Win you posted above is 180gr. Not sure what bullet weights they used for that comparison, but even if they were comparing a heavy .243 against a the lightest .357" bullet you shouldn't be getting so much more power out of the .350Win with a lot less recoil.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 29, 2019 5:21:36 GMT
So I spent some time trying to build an atlatl.
Turns out it's more difficult than I expected. You can't just take a straight stick and try to throw it with another stick. All that happens when you do is that it flips end over end and won't go very far. The whole damn thing needs to be balanced and the dart needs to be uniform width all the way down the shaft. So a thin, straight young tree of adequate length doesn't cut it. One end is always going to be thicker and much heavier than the other. If you go that route you have to shave down the whole thing to be uniform. A huge pain in the ass with simple tools, even if you cheat with a modern knife.
This is why a lot of modern builders of atlatls use either bamboo or river cane instead of hardwood for darts. Interestingly though, there are no archeological finds of darts made from river cane in the US (I think there is some of bamboo in Asia). That doesn't mean it wasn't used, just that river cane didn't survive the ages as proof.
There were finds of hardwoods such as maple. I was using maple so I know it can be done, I just didn't do it right.
Though I did learn a bit from the experience. Even my shoddy try did give me some interesting results at the short range that I could get it to work. Penetration was easily double what I could do simply trying to throw the spear without the atlatl. So there's a power advantage over a typical spear.
I'll have to make some more effort.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 30, 2019 3:41:45 GMT
It seems like the hardest part of making a projectile weapon like this is making the arrows or darts properly.
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Post by Horsie on Mar 31, 2019 4:46:38 GMT
Had a go with a Trapdoor Springfield today, nearly put my fucking eye out when I opened the action and the casing ejected like a rocket.
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