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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 19:05:11 GMT
They had like mad technology, like kind of steam punky inventions. Sort of a gageteer kinda thing.
I guess Justinian the Techno-pony would be the closest equivalent.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2018 19:57:16 GMT
Lelish.
So you were one of those Dwarf lovers. God I hate how most people implement Dwarfs... slightly more angry short Scottish people.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 20:31:30 GMT
There were actually elves, who were evil and came from another dimension. They were inspired by evil elves in the disc world book "lords and ladies".
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2018 20:37:46 GMT
Oh I know there were Elves.
I just think Dwarfs are stupid as implemented most of the time.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 20:43:28 GMT
What don't you like about dwarves? They are gruff and grumpy and have beards! What's not to love?
Is this some elf fanboyism bleeding over into your real opinions?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2018 21:52:03 GMT
Tolkien's Dwarves were okay... and rather different considering how clearly Jewish (not just Scottish!) they were. But ever since that they've become a bunch of blundering stereotypes. They're one bit and boring. Oh hur hur, I drink and I have a beard and I'm inherently grudgy and grumpy!
Warhammer Dwarfs are also horrid, but for slightly different reasons. I've been told they're based on the Northern English, not the Scottish, but they still manage to keep the boring old stereotypes for the most part. Their grudge and honour system, while technically offshoots of the usual bullshit, do have some merits and potential interesting things to them... but their dogged lack of perspective just makes them tiresome to me. That people actually look up to those fucking dunces slightly depresses me and sometimes I wonder if I should be cheering on the fucking Skaven. But of course not. The only reason that the Dwarfs are somewhat palatable is because their usual enemies are even worse than they are. Skaven are funny, but they're assholes to the point that I can't get invested in them. Greenskins are somehow even worse than Skaven because they're shallow ponds of piss. All they do is fight, that's it, that is all they care about. Skaven at least have a goal beyond that, even if it is a boring and predictable goal!
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 23:04:09 GMT
But but but they come from yorkshire!
You realise, of course, that all of this is going in the book?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2018 23:12:57 GMT
If you think Elves are basically just humans, Dwarfs are just one type of human. They're like your jolly but super conservative racist uncle who can sometimes be nice but is an asshole to most anyone who disagrees with him and should die of liver failure but for some reason that fucker is still kicking and while that earns a grudging bit of respect there is only so much of him you can handle.
Now imagine an entire race just like that.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 23:21:25 GMT
Hahha they aren't THAT bad! They are honourable and honest and hard working. They hold grudges because other races do underhanded nasty stuff. If everyone was as upfront and honest as dwarfs, that wouldn't be necessary!
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 23:37:43 GMT
Putting em back in Harkovast now! Short beared dudes all the way!
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2018 23:51:05 GMT
Yet if you are honest with them, into the book you go.
That's the thing I don't like about Dwarfs in Warhammer most. They're honourable and honest from their own cultural perspective. If everyone adopted their culture then everyone would be fine. They're like the French when it comes to Colonialism. French: Become French and you're fine, if not then... British: You lot couldn't possibly become British, don't even try, just listen to us. They're both horrid in their own ways. By the way, the British in that analogy? They're the Warhammer High Elves. They deserve each other because they're both massive assholes. But overall, the Dwarfs don't comprehend other people's culture and perspectives on honour. Some of the fucking Norscans are as honourable in their own way as any Dawi...
So fine, lets say that Dwarfs in Warhammer range from being fine so long as you agree with them on everything to being racist uncles. Then there are the Chaos Dwarfs, who are basically guilded age mordorites. That's fine. At least it is different.
Consider the Elves. The High Elves alone have actual differences between their internal factions. You've got your puffed up asshole mage nerds, puffed up asshole dragon riding jock types who do have a bit of an honourable twist, Sea Elves who like boats and exploring, honourable and generally humble ranger/hunter mountaineer types, hippies, etc. Its almost like you've got different cultures there.
Dwarfs have Slayers, weird Rangers who don't live in mountains all the time, and standard Dwarfs. There are those weird Norse Dwarfs actually... but then they still share the same attitude they just dress weird (also they might be all dead). You do have the runesmiths and engineer types, but they're really just mixed in with all these things and not really their own distinct group within the Dwarfs.
Dark Elves are all Sadistic assholes. They come in many varieties, but they're really all the same. They're in the same boat as the Dwarfs... though there is the divide between the Slaanesh worshippers (who may have been retconned...) and the rest. I guess. Cult of Pleasure types are now Athartists or something. I dunno. Its weird.
Wood Elves at least have the division with the forest spirits, and they are generally different from your standard "Wood Elf" stereotype... being murderous assholes in their own way. They ain't tree hugging hippies quite.
Then again, I guess Harkovast is similar to the Dwarfs and other one note Warhammer groups, since culture is tied so heavily to identity and even physical appearance. The closest there is to different cultures in the same "race" are basically similar animals that usually have some other similarity in their culture. Birds tend to worship Shaledemos. Cats worship Thane. Etc. But Harkovast at least has an interesting excuse for it.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 18, 2018 23:55:47 GMT
Aren't all elves in warhammer snooty and superior and look down on everyone else? Woodelves express that with isolationism. High Elves through medelling and manipulation of 'lesser cultures' and dark elves by just flat out killing everyone else?
I admit dwarfs have less subtypes than elves, but so do most people in warhammer!
And chaos dwarves are pretty interesting.
And we are horribly off topic here.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 19, 2018 0:45:32 GMT
No, actually, not all Elves are horribly snooty and look down on everyone. Chracian Elves are known to be considerably more humble than the norm, with Korhil even having legitimate friendships with people of other races and going to help them out when allowed. Him and the Chracians are basically the nicest Elves out there.
Though most High Elves do adopt the typical Colonial British attitude to other races.
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Post by Horsie on Jun 19, 2018 5:59:57 GMT
Rainbow magic? I feel like we lost something wonderful.
And short. Essentially Renard in a nutshell.
This earlier version more or less required the existence of gods, while now it's kind of ambiguous whether gods exist.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 19, 2018 6:31:15 GMT
Yeha its unclear now, which you don't see so much in fantays things where the gods are always pretty much confirmed from day one.
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