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Post by Harkovast on Feb 2, 2016 23:20:35 GMT
I don't see how they are more facist than the darsai, Ivos or brorg-dao. They are all militant races (the darsai and brorg-dao also have monarchies, and the ivos at least have an aristocracy.)
By modern standards the levengroust government might seem backwards, but tarring them as the facists of Harkovast seems unfair...
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE TOLPISH ARE TOTAL FACISTS!
Gorst is a freaking nazi!
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 2, 2016 23:28:55 GMT
No no no. The Tolpish aren't fascists. They have a monarchy!
More seriously speaking, though, yeah. I was under the impression that the Kaiser had supreme power. But since that isn't the case...
Also, Renard and I asked a question... gotta get that thread going again.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 0:06:52 GMT
What the Tolpish have is not a monarchy. The Empire is ruled by the pharoah (which is not a hereditary position...its more based on size) but the actual political power and running of things is done by the High Command, making it really a military dictatorship. High Commander is made up of the leaders of the most powerful sects.
As long as they continue to conquor in his name, and show suitable defference, Might Pharaoh is fine with High Command running things however they see fit. Technically he has absolute power, but realistically never uses it.
By modern standards the Kaiser has a crazy amount of power, but he doesn't have absolute power over the Reich. In practice it would very unusual for his will not to be carried out by his loyal subjects.
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 3, 2016 0:18:36 GMT
That's not exactly fascism then. Fascism is literally the idea that only one man leader can guide the nation. Though I suppose that in practice it kind of is what happened to the Nazis, with Hitler only sort of being involved with some decisions. But even then, Hitler was keen to meddle in absolutely everything. Though it almost seems a bit like a Junta, which could maybe be even worse... I'm not actually sure how I'd classify that.
Ah, but Mighty Pharaoh will dispose of members of the High Command if... it? Gets annoyed with them for any reason, right? So... still fascisty?
Hmm. I'm not sure now.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 0:33:21 GMT
Pharaoh is extremely dangerous, like all Knarl, and can horribly injure, kill or eat people for failures or if they don't do what it wants.
I guess the Tolpish themselves as a military junta. The top ranking scar warriors determine everything by virtue of their military rank. There is no separation between the military and government for them. Though being related to a powerful person is a big help, its still meritocracy and the politics are often ruthless. Not only do you have to deal with your rivals but the danger that you piss off Pharaoh or another Knarl and they decide to get rid of you.
By that definition the Levengroust aren't facist, since its the monarchy as the centre of their empire thats important, rather than one individual. They are deffinitely a monarchy.
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 3, 2016 0:43:19 GMT
I like that you made a military Junta and make it actually plausibly successful.
I suppose, though there is something fascistic about monarchies, its just that monarchies don't need to rely on nationalism.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 1:05:35 GMT
The Knarl Empire is kinda dysfunctional. It's held together by sheer military force. A lot of its actually insitutions don't work very well, but continued conquest and brutal repression gives them stability.
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 3, 2016 1:10:38 GMT
Well, at least they've lasted for a bit. That's successful by Junta standards.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 17:56:28 GMT
This got me thinking about which ones would be considered an absolute monarchy. Its tricky because a lot of monarchs, even when thedont have any law that restricts them, may be limited by practicalities of needed support from other factions (such as the nobility or the army.)
Mighty Pharoah is an absolute ruler, but doesn't really use that power as he has underlings doing all that for him.
The King in the West is an absolute ruler and also an absolute facist. And I don't just mean in the nazi sense (he's not actually racist, he wants all the races destroyed equally...though he has a grudge againt the Lel, thats for personal rather than ideological reasons.) His rule is based on the idea that he is the one person that can save Harkovast and is uniquely capable and entitled to rule it. It's actually more facist than any real world facists could actually be!
Going to the normal races, the closest to an absolute monarchy who could act with no restrictions would be the Tsars of the Lukavir. They had no law that restricted them and effectively held absolute power with no expectations that they do anything as what ever they decided to do or say was law by definition. The church, military and army were all entirely subservient to the Tsars authority.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 18:04:25 GMT
An example of a monarchy that was absolute on paper, but very weak in reality was the Rotetra one. The monarchy ended up so in debt to the church and so intimidated by it that the priesthood became the real seat of power.
I thought of two more absolute monarchs!
The Gotetra God Emperor and the White Empress of White Kingdom. They are viewed as divine figures by their subjects so act with very little restriction. However, in reality there are still lots of powerful figures around them trying to manipulate things to their own advantage.
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 18:05:31 GMT
Oooh I also noticed I made a mitake! Rotetra worshipped Shaldemos, but not Dak and Vec. Fixed it now.
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 3, 2016 18:29:47 GMT
Didn't the Rotetra not really worship Shaldemos? They worshiped the sort of "idea" behind the different magic "elements"?
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Post by Harkovast on Feb 3, 2016 22:48:36 GMT
Maybe a sort of proto-shaldemos.
Bakarasz is a member of the Tolpish High Command. He hoped his successful invasion of the Cansaibe would elevate him to a posistion of supreme leadership over the Tolpish. Unfortunately for him, his failure to capture Craggarg and the resultant cansaibe rebellions have led his rivals to argue that he didn't handle the invasion correctly and it could have been better organised by another general. Capturing Craggarg is always his top priority in order to remove this stain on his personal honour.
Gallee is a well respected commander but is mainly concerned with serving the Empire and doing her duty, not with political ambitions, so hasn't risen to the higher levels of power.
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Post by Canuovea on Feb 3, 2016 22:57:12 GMT
That shithead in charge of the lot of them!!? That's a scary thought!
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Post by Horsie on Feb 4, 2016 8:46:38 GMT
We'll solve that problem of the Gotetra ruler having underlings manipulating them by replacing those underlings with weasels.
Also, Canuovea asked a question in the "What do you want to know?" thread the other day, I think you might have missed it.
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