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Post by Canuovea on Dec 31, 2016 22:00:15 GMT
"You white people can keep Kanye" is a similar attitude, yeah.
But then again as Carlin would say...
"Not like Colin Powell. Colin power is white... he just happens to be black."
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Post by Harkovast on Jan 1, 2017 13:15:04 GMT
I dont want to be (ironically) Mr PC saying you cant make the "this black guy is more white than the white guys!" kinda joke. I mean when Ben Carson put out a rap song to get people in the black community to vote for him it was hard NOT to make jokes like that. I mean I'm white and English and even I wouldn't come close to this cringey trying to reach out to African Americans."Vote for Ben Carson and be awesome" indeed. I dont want to seem like I'm guilty of the same hypocrisy, telling off people for policing speech and then policing speech myself. But whats in this video, to me, is just flat out patronising racism at black people. But MTV are doing it as part of a video with the message "we are really righteous and virtuous and we going to tell you stupid racists how to be better" and then they throw in something super racist about Kanye. It manages to totally undermine their already idiotic, racist message. Unless the entire message here is meant to be ironic and we are supposed to be laughing at these MTV Hipster morons (and I am really sure that's not what they intended) then we have to assume the Kanye bit is meant as seriously as the rest of it. Also, worth pointing out, the format here is not even original. It's an obvious knock off of the kind of racist videos buzzfeed is always putting out. They do ones just like this with titles like "28 questions for white guys" that vary from racist assumptions like "why dont you care when police kill black people?" through to surreal ones I don't understand like "Why do you let dogs lick your faces?" Buzzfeed actually got a bit carried away and got themselves into some trouble when they did a video titled soemthing like 28 questions black people have for other black people. It was described as "28 questions white people at buzzfeed got black actors to ask black people", wiht loads of things about getting a job, and not committing black and black crime. See when I keep saying identity politics is a bad thing, its stuff like this I am getting at. When we divide people up more and more, sooner or later we just end up with racism.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jan 2, 2017 20:13:18 GMT
I think people keep looking for that perfect blend of racism, segregation, and class warfare where everyone has the same amount. As if the path to harmony is to have just the right amount of all of it, but not too much.
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Post by Harkovast on Jan 3, 2017 0:06:47 GMT
I swear in the 90s we all used to think the solution was to all just try not to be dicks to each other. I don't know when that went out of style but it seems like some happy dream from long ago in today's world.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jan 3, 2017 3:52:32 GMT
We were so naive. As if treating others as you want to be treated ever worked anywhere.
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Post by Canuovea on Jan 3, 2017 19:25:50 GMT
Alas, complex social problems are never simple to solve.
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Post by Horsie on Jan 4, 2017 9:14:18 GMT
Bullshit, we just need to go extinct.
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Post by Harkovast on Jan 20, 2017 0:28:34 GMT
Canuovea I disagree. I think what we used to think about this stuff was exactly right.
All this meaningless complexity and nonsense people seem to have added to the issue hasn't helped at all.
The solution was simple and people were doing it but now for some reason everyone has regressed and turned eliminating prejudice and racism into some kind of insane, unworkable maze.
People keep trying to tell me that just "trying not to be prejudice and treating everyone equally" isn't a good solution and won't fit things....but I am pretty sure the people saying that are hate peddling morons we all need to ignore.
Though Renard may be on to something with his theory.
Oh and since this is the section where I make people mad at me, let me stir up some more trouble. I think we're going to get 8 years of Trump. I say this becuase his opposition seem to have so far learned nothing from why they lost and are falling over themselves to repeat their mistakes. When he gets sworn in there is going to be a big "march for women" in DC. This is a fucking waste of time. Protests have to have a point, like a specific demand that you want. A vague sense of "Trump's sexist, and we dont like him" isn't ademand that can be met. So all you are doing is making yourself feel better. You arne't helping anything. Even more hillariously stupid though is that the people organising it seem to be turning on each other like Jackals.
First they had a fight about letting in anti abortion womens groups (they ended up kicking them out, because we are marching for women....that we agree with.) Then black acitvists started sayign the march (called the million women march originally) was using a name used by black marches originally. They changed the name but the black activists said that the the march was all about white women and needed to be more intersectional, focusing on black women. The original organiser of the march stepped down and they put some black women in charge, and told their "white allies" to not take up too much space or attention. That kinda SOUNDS like someone hijacked the march to push their own agenda rather than what it was originally about.Maybe its my privilege showing but I don't see what the fuck racism has to do with this. Then again I didn't get why BLM had to take over a pride march in Canada of all places, so what the hell do I know?
Finally, just to make this theatre of silliness completely, there will be marches in other countries. Countries where Trump will not be, and where no one in power can control Trump in anyway. I am sure if the marches in the same city as him don't make Trump mend his ways, the ones thousands of miles away across oceans will REALLY sort him out. Social media makes peopel forget that Trump is (unless you are american) a foreign leader.
The left has become like a strange, clockwork machine, that just predictably repeats its actions unthinkingly, no matter how pointless or misguided they have become.
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Post by Canuovea on Jan 20, 2017 5:29:53 GMT
I know people (from Canada) going to that march in Washington. They received death threats.
Martin Luthor King Jr. would see this as working. The basic idea is to create and maintain tension until something finally gets done. And again, Hark, I don't think things have changed as much as you think. Martin Luthor King Jr. made a big deal in his letters from that jail place that he was beginning to think that the real enemy isn't the super far right racist asshole, but rather the moderate white man. In that sense, well, you'd have been seen as wrong or a problem by the left way back then too.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jan 20, 2017 6:19:54 GMT
MLK would have said tension works if it's in a particular direction. What Vast is getting at is there is no direction here.
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Post by Canuovea on Jan 20, 2017 6:32:40 GMT
But there is, more or less. Its an attempt to stand up against the misogyny that Trump endorses, and will encourage just by being in office and therefore justifying other people who think like him in coming out of the woodwork. I see it as a kind of preemptive strike back against everything Trump is and everything he threatens to spread throughout the world through his example.
Whether this will be worthwhile, or have any positive effect, however, I cannot say.
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Post by Harkovast on Jan 20, 2017 10:51:43 GMT
But there is, more or less. Its an attempt to the misogyny that Trump endorses... Canuovea I think right there kinda proves my point. There is "more or less"...how cna we be more or less certain there is a point to this? " stand up to the misogyny that Trump endorses" is the vaguest thing I've ever heard. Stand up to? In what way? This wont influence Trump, its just angry people marching around. The misogyny? WHat like saying he grabs pussy? Is this a march to force him to not say that again? Much like the march, your call there could mean almost anything to anyone and that's why it wont make any difference. The only benefit will be to make peopl feel like they are contributing, even though they really aren't. MLK was not, as I understand, in favour of marches that are "More or less against the general racism that seems to be going on around here sometimes." I think the civil rights movement was a bit more clear than that. And who are these assholes sending death threats? Everyone is so polarised into us nad them these days, we have to defend our side to the death and hate the other side above all else.
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Post by Canuovea on Jan 20, 2017 10:57:32 GMT
Well, it makes sense to me.
It isn't just vague ideas of him being a dick either, though combating the zeitgeist Trump is likely to bring in (in some ways already has) is laudable enough. You seem to forget that Trump has stated he wants to make the legality of abortion a question for the states and is almost certainly going to put Supreme Court Justices into place who will make that a reality. Ginsberg isn't looking so healthy, after all.
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Post by StyxD on Jan 20, 2017 12:14:24 GMT
You know, Hark, at least where I'm at people who complain about protests not achieving enough advocate violent solutions, so I know what they're about. You, I really don't.
I dunno what to say. That people often protest to display their position, even if they are ignored (protests are commonly ignored)? Seemed obvious. And the remarks about foreigners not being USA citizens are just snide.
So are you bothered about people doing things not immediately effective, or are you just determined to harp about every thing liberals do to show how hardcore nonpartisan you are?
Anyway, I'm done reading this section of the forums. Discussion was pointless before, now it's just annoying.
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Post by Harkovast on Jan 21, 2017 13:20:16 GMT
Urgh StyxD you just post the same argument to everything I say.
You consider me to have been "on your side" previously, but now I am not agreeing with you and that angers you and makes you feel disappointed. I get that, but its not really an argument for why I am wrong.
I feel like you don't care about the substance of what I say and are more concerned that I'm being a heretic. I feel bad comparing your argument to a religious one, as that obviously implies I am trivialising it, but I cant think of another way to describe your reaction accurately.
Honestly, your outrage that I a disagree only hurts your cause more. If conforms to the stereotype of progressives who aren't willing to engage with the other side and actually discuss difference, but instead just declare outrage and leave.
I am explaining what, to me, seem like valid points in good faith and you keep trying to shame me into being quiet. If you want to change my mind, you need to actually tackle what I am saying and talk about it.
I don't agree with Canuovea on this, but he's actually talking to me about it rather then doing this "I can't believe you would say such things!" and storming off.
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