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Post by Canuovea on Jun 21, 2017 22:15:05 GMT
Oh fuck it nevermind.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 22, 2017 4:55:15 GMT
The thing is, this isn't really "big news" in the US. There's not a lot of talk about it. In fact, this forum is the most I've seen about it. The only people who seem to be talking about it are folks who think this is some big comeuppance. The tit for tat mentality is how kindergartners think. Like there is a fair amount of injustice that needs to be spread around, if I got too much of it than that guy over there needs some too, whether he deserves it or not.
So I guess this means that some other race needs to be thrown into a hard labor camp in N. Korea. Cuz only white people and Koreans know that kinda suffering.
Or something like that.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 22, 2017 4:57:10 GMT
Now that I think about it, the kid that got sentenced to a caning in Singapore 20 years ago for a similar offense got way more coverage.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 9:51:33 GMT
My guess would be, the media are very left wing generally and since the far left decided the kdi was the bad guy, the regular left just avoid the topic because its awkward to talk about. They don't want to be in conflict with people on their "team".
Yeah this is pretty accurate. I feel like If black people still had to sit at the back of the bus, todays modern campaigners would be fighting to get the seats at the front of the bus removed.
A friend of mine said he hates the idea that these things are limited or finite. LIke there cant be enough justice for everyone. He said if you dont have enough water in your glass, you dont need him to pour you some from his glass, you need to be given access to the tap to get all the water you want.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 22, 2017 20:07:48 GMT
I still think you're all missing the point.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 20:35:16 GMT
Sorry Canuovea, but I read the points you were making and I didn't find it compelling at all. A lot of them seemed to make no sense or be based on weird generalisations.
It feels like you want to defend people because they are on your side of the political spectrum.
IF I swap out Larry Wilmore and the Huffpo for Bill OReilly and Fox news saying how if a black kid commits a crime, its their own fault they got killed, you wouldnt be making excuses and trying to rationalise it. If it was Trump supporters, rather than progressives, laughing and joking about someone being taken to the their deaths, would you show them the same sympathy?
The point, as far as I can tell, is that letting racism and hate cloud your mind so you can't feel sympathy for your fellow human beings is a horrible thing. I don't think there is another point for me to miss.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 22, 2017 20:47:52 GMT
You don't think it is at all a little hypocritical of the government and people of the USA to be so up in arms about this... when people are murdered by the USA's own government agencies in similar fashion quite often?
Here's the point. It wouldn't matter if this was a white man or a black man killed. All that matters is that a foreign government murdered a US citizen. But when the US government murders its own citizens, there is the equivalent of a shrug and nothing is done?
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 20:50:45 GMT
Shrug? Have you heard of a little thing called Black Lives Matter?
Also a direct comparisson like that is kinda meaningless, different things upset people differently. After a terror attack kills ten peopel going "more than that die everyday from heart disease! isn't it hypocritical to be upset?" is pretty ridiculous.
The American government does bad stuff but to seriously say it is equivilant to North Korea? I mean really? I know Trump is bad and all, but North Korea? we're going there?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 22, 2017 21:08:56 GMT
A shrug by the authorities, obviously. How many massive changes in the police force have happened thanks to BLM? How many happened before that when the police murdered people? I'm not even saying BLM has done anything, just that there seems little impetus to change.
You are honestly telling me that it is okay for a government to ignore murder of their citizens by its own authorities but just fine to condemn murders of its citizens in others? And maybe the reason not much gets done to fix the corrupt police system in the fine USA is because most people aren't bothered when poor folks or black folks are murdered by police. Maybe they damn well should start being bothered by it.
And yes it is, at its core, the same thing. The details are different, but this man was beaten and tortured and worked to death. Lets look at it at the individual level, shall we? That IS what anti-SJW types want to do all the time, right? A man was caught for a misdemeanour by government authorities then brutally and unjustly murdered for it through beatings.
You can then say "oh but North Korea!" Yeah. North Korea. But what happened to this man is at its core the same thing that happens to lots of folks in the USA, they just tend to skip the work camp and go straight to the murdering the poor bastard. And at a group, institutionalized level, North Korea condones this shit. Yes. They're worse than the USA. But the outcome is the same for the individuals.
I mean, if you were to make a list of the US citizens murdered unjustly by government forces in North Korea and compare it to a similar list about US citizens murdered unjustly by government forces in the US... Tell me that there would not be a striking difference.
You seem to think I'm saying that the USA is worse than or as bad as North Korea. I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying that people shouldn't be outraged over this. But I am saying that where was this outrage when the USA was murdering its own people? The only difference really is that this was a foreign government, not a domestic one.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 21:24:27 GMT
I feel like you are arguing with a hypothetical person that isn't present. This hypothetical person doesn't care when the US Government kills people, but does when nroth korea does it. I have no doubt people like that exist, but none of them are here.
I don't feel its up to me or anyone else in this conversation to defend this hypothetical, hypocritical person.
Can you at least narrow it down to a specific person expressing those views that we can then criticise? It just seems like you are fighting an argument no one is making.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 22, 2017 21:25:25 GMT
Furthermore, you just said it, people didn't care when those black folks were getting murdered by police. People were unaffected.
Now they care.
You don't see how this wouldn't frustrate the people who did care? Because they were being ignored? Now someone else gets that attention and sympathy? And that impetus to do something?
Its rooted in a kind of jealousy. But a kind of jealousy I can understand.
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Post by StyxD on Jun 22, 2017 21:25:54 GMT
You guys. At this point… are we still talking about the callous reactions of some leftists? I don't think you're wrong, Can. But it's a not a thesis that started this thread. I just feel you're arguing completely different things at one another. Edit: Actually, now I do thing you're wrong, Canuovea. You don't see how this wouldn't frustrate the people who did care? Because they were being ignored? Now someone else gets that attention and sympathy? And that impetus to do something? This really is a false equivalence. Political police and brutal police are completely different issues… you can, of course erase all the difference between them until they aren't, which is exactly the "only American issues matter" attitude that grates me so.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 21:34:06 GMT
Yeah its kinda losing me at this point. I dont get what I am being persuaded of.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 22, 2017 21:58:16 GMT
You are honestly telling me that it is okay for a government to ignore murder of their citizens by its own authorities but just fine to condemn murders of its citizens in others? And maybe the reason not much gets done to fix the corrupt police system in the fine USA is because most people aren't bothered when poor folks or black folks are murdered by police. Maybe they damn well should start being bothered by it. And yes it is, at its core, the same thing. The details are different, but this man was beaten and tortured and worked to death. They're not really the same thing at all. In once instance you have things happening at the heat of the moment. Tensions rise and bad things happen. In the other case they deliberated in a formal setting and came to the conclusion that the man should die. Also, why have you come to the conclusion that police brutality isn't an issue in the US? It's been in the news for years. We've had protests, riots, and even congressional hearings on this. If anything it's taken over more than it's fair share of the public eye. It's old news and doesn't shock anyone anymore.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 22, 2017 22:55:51 GMT
This is what I mean when I say I dont get who Canuvoea is talking about. Everyone here thinks police brutality is bad, and it seems like Americans in general think its a big deal, so I don't get who this hypothetical person he's fighting against is. Who ever say they dont care about black people getting shot by cops for petty crimes is a twat, but I cant see anyone on this thread arguing that so what the hell are we talking about?
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