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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 10, 2019 19:02:27 GMT
I will say that "I know what I want to be when I grow up" feels a bit strange. It seems such a modern phrase. We refer to children "growing up" but does that actually fit this society of yours? They would acknowledge the existence of childhood I'm sure but we know that childhood ended much faster in earlier societies. Also, maybe the use of the whole phrase just feels too familiar after this strange new myth?
Yeah, that stuck out to me too. I'm thinking about how a child would phrase it differently.
I wrote it first as "I know what I want to do with my life" and that seemed weird too.
Maybe "I know what I want to do as a man"?
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 10, 2019 20:12:33 GMT
That might be better, yes.
"I want to do that!" might be more childish, but if it is meant to be more serious and demonstrate a kind of early maturity "...as a man" works.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 10, 2019 21:11:06 GMT
The thing about maturity in primitive culture is that it wouldn't be a set age. For us someone is pretty much a child until 16 or so when they are considered to be in some in-between state of child and adult. Then at 18 we officially say they are adults. For a primitive culture age would have less influence on it. For girls a lot of the time it would be when they get their first menstrual cycle, which can vary wildly. For boys it might be a specific deed. Such as if Ro had managed to kill the wolf in the prologue the society might well consider that the deed man, even though he's about eight. In this society tattoos are put on the skin of adults to display their accomplishments and he would have earned one for that, possibly even a second one for protecting his sister from the wolf. Protecting women being a primary purpose of men in this society. Although his sister is still a long way from a woman so that probably wouldn't count.
There's also the possibility in this culture that you never mature. A man who never proves himself continues to be regarded as a child no matter how old he gets. This would severely limit his options in life since he couldn't be chosen as a house man, go on hunting expeditions, or do any other task reserved for men. He might even be forbidden from carrying an atlatl.
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 10, 2019 21:27:09 GMT
Well, I mean, it depends on how mature to the modern reader you want the kid to sound, I mean. Such a statement might not be seen as maturity, per se, by that society itself.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 10, 2019 21:56:42 GMT
"...when I grow up" is not a statement that a child would likely make since it feels to modern and informal.
"...become a man/woman" is probably more accurate.
I'll change it.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 10, 2019 23:42:51 GMT
(A bit more than the last chapter)
Chapter 3
Night had fallen. The moon was nearly full and the clouds were few. At great expense to the woodcutters, several large logs had been dragged in and a huge bonfire was set outside the village. Most of the members of the tribe were in attendance, even the field guardians and other outlying workers who lived in small hovels away from the village came, drawn in by the fire and smoke. They chatted with each other and often laughed, but there was a unease that could be sensed. This was a rare and holy ceremony that they were about to be a part of.
Onu emerged from the village and there was a hush. He slowly approached the fire, planting his staff firmly as he walked. It rattled sharply each time. His skull painted face was stern and purposeful. Behind him Ket followed with his satchel over her shoulder. She was slowly beating a drum to his pace. Her paint was less elaborate than Onu's, her face was white with a black stripe down each side. For that she was thankful as it would draw fewer eyes and therefore less attention to her inexperience. As Onu walked the villagers quickly backed away from him. Some of them even directed wards at him. Children, who had only hours ago been clamoring for his attention, were cowering behind their mothers.
The holy man reached the fire and stopped. He raised his arms and was silhouetted against the dancing flames that reached twice his height. Ket increased the speed of the drum and he rattled his staff to the beat, waving it over the fire. He chanted a quick blessing under his breath. He elevated the staff up toward the moon and another chant. Then he did the same thing toward the people who were attending, walking a wide circle around the fire to do so. He shouted and forcefully planted the staff into the ground. Ket ceased the drum. The site was consecrated.
Onu motioned back to the village, and a stretcher was carried forth. On it was Nev, covered with wolf furs with a white stone talisman of Murr hanging around her neck. She was being carried by three generations of her family, Sani, two of her daughters, and one granddaughter. She was paraded though the villagers slowly, allowing them to reach out and touch the esteemed woman. Many of them were crying. Nev only made feeble attempts to acknowledge them as she passed in and out of restless unconsciousness. Eventually Nev was set before the fire.
Onu waved his staff over her. "Great Murr, who resides in the sky and looks down upon this one. You know her name. You know her deeds. You know her spirit. Help me to guide her for you know she is worthy. Let her sit next to her ancestors. Let her sit with her daughters and sons who have gone before her. Let her sit next to you."
He planted the staff again, letting it stand on its own. Kneeling down next to the dying woman he motioned for Ket to come forward. She presented his satchel and he removed a dish, a small leather bag with a cord clasping it shut, two small wooden sticks with elaborate carvings on them in a leather sleeve, a small clay jar with a stopper, a patch of leather with a cord tied to it, and a stone knife attached to a stag handle. He pulled each of these items out deliberately and neatly arranged them in front of him. He passed his hand over them and gave a silent blessing.
Onu picked up the jar and removed the wooden stopper. He took a sip from it before passing it to Ket to do the same. She had never tasted the blessed honey wine that it contained before. It was delicious. Part of her regretted that she was only allowed the smallest taste before she gave it back to Onu. The holy man slowly poured the remainder of the wine into the dish.
He picked up the small bag. The leather on it was darkened by a heavy coat of wax to prevent water from spoiling the contents. Carefully he removed the cord and opened the bag. He picked up the two carved sticks in one hand and held them in a way that they could be used to grasp, since dare not touch the contents of the bag with his bare hands. He transferred a small amount of brown powder from inside the bag to the dish and stirred the honey wine gently.
All the items except the dish, the patch, and the knife went back into his satchel. Onu picked up the dish and held it up, giving one more quiet blessing. He was still for a moment before he gave a sidelong look to Ket and cleared his throat softly. It dawned on the young woman that she was supposed to assist at this part. Setting down the drum she quickly moved around to gently prop up Nev into a sitting position.
The old woman was still sleeping and Onu stroked her head gently. She grunted and opened her eyes.
"Tomay?" She asked weakly.
"Yes, High Mother," the holy man said to her, "Tomay is here. Drink first and you will see him."
"Yes," she agreed, "I am thirsty."
Onu gently tipped the dish for her to drink. She coughed lightly and some of it dribbled down her chin, but she drank more than enough.
"Oh... very good." Nev said. "Is there more?"
"I'm sorry, High Mother." Onu said. "That was the last of it."
"A shame." She spoke wearily as she fell asleep again.
Ket and Onu carefully lowered the old woman back into repose. Onu placed the leather patch over Nev's mouth and tied the cord around the back of her head. Ket moved to stand behind Onu, picking up the drum. The holy man took up his staff once again, holding it over the sleeping woman. He began to shake it and Ket started to drum. They began slowly with Onu watching the rise and fall of the wolf pelts on Nev's chest as she breathed. The villagers started to crowd in close to them, craning their necks to see.
Nev gave a sudden short gasp. Onu shook his staff with more vigor and Ket increased her drumming to keep up. Nev's brow furrowed and her breathing became labored. The rise and fall of the pelts quickened, and so did the holy man's staff. Ket started to stomp her feet as well as drum, many of the villagers joining her. Soon the ground was rumbling to the sound of her drum with so many to assist her. Onu began to sing in the ancient language. The language only the gods could understand.
Nev shivered and struggled to breathe. After several moments she took in one last shuttering breath and it slowly escaped. Onu threw his arms out and let out a shout to compel everyone to fall silent. The holy man placed his head on the old woman's chest. For several moments he listened for the sound of her heartbeat. All were quiet, the only sound from the bonfire, growling and popping as the wind blew across it.
Onu softly kissed Nev on the forehead. The kiss of death. The old woman was gone.
The silence was broken as people begain to cry. Some sobbed in a restrained manner while others wailed with abandon. The mourning was permitted by the holy man. He remained at Nev's side unmoving, behind him Ket drummed softly to measure the passing time. The emotions of the village were infectious and the young woman found herself crying for someone that she didn't even know.
Eventually Onu stood up. He slowly raised his arms toward the moon and let out a howl. Ket joined him and pounded her drum to encourage others to join. One by one the villagers started as well. The sound of it filled the air and drowned out the roaring fire. The most important part of the ritual was about to occur, and the attention of the gods was needed.
Onu returned to the deceased woman's side. He peeled back the wolf pelts that covered her and took up the stone knife. Holding it aloft he started to sing in the ancient language again. He pierced the knife into Nev's abdomen just under the ribs, angling it up over the liver and toward the lungs to slice open the muscle between. Setting aside the knife he reached into her body. There was a squelch of air escaping and blood oozed out of the wound as he grasped inside the still hot depths of her ribcage. He found her heart and pulled it free. It steamed in the night air. Cradling the bloody organ in both hands he displayed it to the villagers.
Ket increased the volume of the drum. Onu was about to take Nev's spirit onto the path that leads to the sky. For that is the duty of a guide. This was the most sacred and dangerous part as the gods may choose to take Onu as well if they deemed him unfit to carry the spirt.
The holy man stepped over the body. A normally disrespectful act that symbolized that the vessel was of no further use. He continued to sing as he approached the great bonfire, holding up the heart in front of him. When his song was done he looked up at the moon. There were no clouds obscuring it. The path was clear.
The crowd of onlookers gasped in unison as he stepped into the tall flames. The fire leaped up around him, setting his grass clothing ablaze. He did not scream or flee, only took another step deeper into the raging inferno. The fire whipped and danced over his body, trying desperately to devour him or drive him away, but Onu was mightier than the flame. Finding the eye of the pyre he set the heart on it and turned to leave.
When the holy man emerged his skirt, headdress, and gaiters were burning. The villagers gaped in amazement as the grass clothing was consumed to ash, leaving Onu naked, but unharmed with steam wafting off his body. Even his hair and beard were untouched. All were silent. Too silent. Ket realized that she was supposed to be drumming the entire time but forgot herself when he went into the bonfire. She never had witnessed Onu using the power of fire passage before and had been mesmerized by it. She quickly composed herself and resumed the drumming. Onu raised his arms to the fire and sang up to the moon.
When the song was done Onu was finished. A large jug of water had been set aside for him to cleanse after the ritual. He scrubbed his hands and arms clean of blood. Ket brought him the knife and he cleaned it as well. He splashed water into his face and smeared the paint and oil around, obliterating the skull into a gray, dripping mess. He dumped the entire jug over his head and the water streaked the paint down his body.
"Pah!" He cried out, spitting a spray of water. "Wash away the tears! She is in the sky and now and it is she that weeps for you, the poor souls left behind!"
He leaped to his feet and grabbed Ket by the head. He purposefully smeared the paint across her face before catching the young woman by surprise by kissing her hard on the lips, smearing it even further.
"Play for us!" He said with a grin, looking wild-eyed with ruined paint and grease running down all over him. "It is time to celebrate, so play with all your spirit!" He threw his arms out and howled with jubilation. High Mother Sani was the first to join him, letting out a cry of triumph. Ket whooped and started a vigorous beat, stomping her feet and throwing her hair. Others lent their voices to signal the start of the festivities.
Onu bounded over to Sani. The holy man then threw his arms around her, picking her up in an embrace. The old woman let out a half mortified, half delighted screech. The villagers laughed when Onu set her down and saw that he had transferred a huge mess onto the front of the woman.
"You devil!" She cried and looked down at herself.
"I'm sorry, High Mother," he said with a laugh, "but come morning I don't intend to be the only one who needs to bathe." He held out his hand. "If I dance with you will you forgive me?"
"I'll think about it." She said as she took his hand.
Other villagers brought out their instruments, and more importantly, their bread wine, and the diversion was in full swing. The tribe spent hours drinking and dancing around the fire. Ket used the opportunity to mingle. After all, if she was to be Onu's protege she needed to get to know as many people as possible. Many of the unclaimed men and even some of the house men took interest in her. Inviting her to dance, bringing her wine or using other tactics to gain her attention. Onu moved through the crowd, starting and breaking conversations with ease. Ever mindful to leave a bit of his ceremonial dressings on people. In no time nearly everyone had some of his social mess on their face, shoulders, arms, or back. During all of this Nev's body lies in repose and largely forgotten where it was left.
It was the children who were the slowest to get into the celebration. Having just witnessed the death of a beloved elder they seemed to be confused. Most eventually gave in to the pressure of letting out their grief with exhilaration, but a few held back. One boy was alone and far from the fire, nearly outside of its illumination. He was crouched down with his back to the celebration, hugging his knees.
Onu went to the boy and crouched next to him, mimicking his position. The boy wouldn't look at him.
"Are you angry with me?" Onu asked.
"No." The boy said glumly. He was quiet and motionless for a few moments and Onu waited patiently with him.
"Why did you take my grandma away?" The boy finally asked.
"Because I'm a guide." The holy man said. "That's what I do. I take people away from this life and into the next."
"I didn't want her to go." The boy said.
"Neither did I." Onu admitted.
The boy looked at him. "Then why did you do it?"
"She asked me to." Onu explained. "I couldn't refuse. Most people don't get the opportunity to choose when they go into the next life. Their life ends suddenly and unexpectedly. They fall from a tree, drown in the river, or become ill when no guide is available for them. Their spirit gets trapped in their body for fear that Su will discover them and they can't pass into the sky. Your grandmother didn't have to suffer that. She went right to the sky."
The boy put his head between his knees. That didn't seem to comfort him.
"You want to see if we can find your grandma in the sky?" Onu asked.
The boy looked up. "Okay."
Onu scanned the stars above. "There's my grandmother right there, and my mother next to her." Onu pointed out two dim stars. "Do you know where any of your ancestors sit? Usually a family stays close together in the sky."
"Um... I think that one right there is Jec, my older brother." The boy pointed out a star over the horizon.
"The second brightest one right there?"
"Yeah."
"I remember him." Onu said. "He was a brave warrior. He saved three men from a great long nose. I told his story to all the villages last year."
"You did?"
"I sure did," he affirmed, "and they didn't believe a word of it."
The boy giggled. "It is a good story."
"It is." Onu said as he squinted at the stars. "What about that one right there? You see? Four over from Jec? I don't remember that one."
The boy squinted at it too. "I don't either."
"That must be her." The holy man declared.
The boy looked at the star for a while. "I miss her already."
"You'll see her again." Onu assured the boy. "And Jec too." The holy man ran his palm up his arm and came away with a handful of the paint and oil mixture.
"Well," Onu said as he rubbed the fishy substance on the boy's shoulder, "I'm going to get drunk and stupid while there's still some of that going around. I think your mother and High Mother Sani would like it if you joined in."
The boy wrinkled his nose at what Onu had put on his arm. "I'll just stay here for a while."
"That's fine, Ro." Onu told him as he stood up. "Maybe when you're feeling better tomorrow you can tell me the story of the witch you found."
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 11, 2019 22:55:07 GMT
A sudden shift in tone but that is intentional. Might get to Ro sitting by himself too soon though.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 11, 2019 23:47:33 GMT
I'll probably revisit this chapter and touch it up a bit, but I got most of what I wanted to get across. In the first chapter I was trying to introduce the people in this world as not so different from us, just without technology. The second chapter touches on the lore. The third explores how that lore means they're not quite as similar to us as we thought.
I'm a little worried that introducing one of the main characters as having a pretext for murder might conflict with the driving force of the story in the minds of the reader. Why would they care? Even to the characters in the story solving the murder (or series of them, as we'll find) for some vague concept like "justice" isn't paramount. This story is about a society that appears stable, almost Eden-like in some respects, but is teetering on the brink of collapse. The killer is the linchpin that could very well push it over and set these people back to the... Uh... even more stone age.
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 11, 2019 23:59:46 GMT
I think the poisoning of the old woman makes sense. It isn't like they burnt her alive. And it sets up two sides to death: reasonable death understood by (most of) the society and then no doubt contrasts that with the "witch's" death. It also demonstrates the importance of ceremony to these people. Ceremony I hazard to guess the killer is not bothering with.
I sense contrast being set up here, is what I mean, and that can potentially help with getting the reader invested. Juxtaposition is powerful.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 12, 2019 1:46:25 GMT
There is a ceremony involved in the "witch". She was killed in a specific, ritualistic way. It's not so much the death that concerns these people as it how it was performed.
I almost didn't do Nev's death ceremony as and old, sick lady because I knew it would be seen as reasonable, but I wanted to show it up front without alienating the readers too much. Later on it can be shown that the ceremony is basically available for anybody who wants it. Ket's suicide ritual is still up in the air.
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 12, 2019 2:04:31 GMT
Even better.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 15, 2019 6:23:58 GMT
Now I'm having major fits over the next chapter. Everything that's happening in it is basically character building, which would thematically fit better after the conflict has been introduced properly.
However...
It logically follows what happens in the previous chapter. So I'd have to change the previous chapter in order to push it off.
AND
I'd have to change the set-up to the previous chapter in chapter 1. Not to mention chapter 2 would have to get put somewhere else.
Why is writing so hard?
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Post by StyxD on Mar 15, 2019 14:46:27 GMT
I'm a little worried that introducing one of the main characters as having a pretext for murder might conflict with the driving force of the story in the minds of the reader. Why would they care? Even to the characters in the story solving the murder (or series of them, as we'll find) for some vague concept like "justice" isn't paramount. I'm not sure I understand. Why would the readers care, or why would the characters? I'm pretty sure it's self-evident that finding the murderer would be a matter of survival, even if the village didn't care about justice. An unsolved serial murders case could easily tear the community apart, both with fear of who's going to be hit next, and with resentment that any neighbour could turn out to be the evil murderer. I can't imagine that the village wouldn't care that someone is killing people all around their homes. Especially if the murders were accompanied by unholy rituals. That might actually terrorize them even more. I think the poisoning of the old woman makes sense. It isn't like they burnt her alive. Oh my gosh. When I was reading the beginning of this fragment, I kept wishing "please don't burn her alive, please don't burn her alive" I don't think I'd be able to empathize with that culture anymore, which would be a problem at this point of this story. Later on it can be shown that the ceremony is basically available for anybody who wants it. Ket's suicide ritual is still up in the air. Was Ket intending to kill herself? Did I miss something? I don't think it would be too alienating. I normally can suspend moral judgment of fantasy cultures, provided they aren't too extreme. We would normally understand a young person killing themselves for religious reasons to be rather bad, but I can totally picture a society where that would be valued. With that preface, I enjoyed the latest chapter. Everything was believable and appropriately emotional. One iffy thing was that I'm not sure if the belief that any recently deceased person appears as a new star would prevail for any period of time. Given that people seemed obsessed with looking at the stars in pretty much all cultures from very early on, they would soon notice that these stars stay pretty much the same and there just isn't enough new ones appearing (if at all).
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Post by Canuovea on Mar 15, 2019 18:11:58 GMT
Yeah I was thinking the same thing about the burning alive bit. My mind was like: Big bonfire. Person who is going to die. Shifty eyes.
Ket originally came and asked to go through the ritual suicide thing because she wasn't having children. Seems she might not be capable of having them. In this society that kinda takes the thing women are valued for (by men and themselves) away from them. That means her lover(s) left her and she was seen as a waste of space, more or less. But instead of just agreeing to it Onu basically gave her a counteroffer because he needed an assistant and this way she has an opportunity to build herself a purpose in life again. More or less what I got out of it. But it didn't come up in the story itself yet, just obliquely referenced.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Mar 15, 2019 21:07:26 GMT
I'm not sure I understand. Why would the readers care, or why would the characters? I was worried if I presented death as too common or casual would it conflict to the readers. Would they believe that the characters would be suitably motivated to find a killer?
I'm presenting a world where life is tough, but not really that bad compared to what their ancestors knew. In all of previous human history they live in pretty much the best time.
However, death isn't that bad to them. There is an afterlife, so they get to survive beyond death... PROVIDED your spirit makes the journey safely. Death can't be taken too casually because destruction of the spirit is the worst thing that can happen to them.
This is exactly what the killer is doing. That is the motivating factor.
I figure the brightest stars would likely be claimed by legendary ancestors, but they don't have any way to document the stars. The sky has a TON of stars in it, especially in a world with no light pollution to speak of. Every time they looked at it they would see stars they never noticed before. Plus the sky tends to change through the seasons. Not to mention beliefs can become dogma where you don't question it. If a holy man declares a star to belong to someone you would accept that.
Not entirely a waste of space. As a woman she has a somewhat higher base value than a man and more privileges, but children are a commodity in this society so she has a lower value than a mother. She has options, but most of them are typically male occupations. She could even be taken in to fill the role of a "house man" and assume wealth in that way, but she can't become the head of her own family.
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