|
Post by Horsie on May 11, 2015 21:16:28 GMT
So... 40K is essentially a high fantasy setting, but in space? They could have come up with some really fucking awesome races, something really original and alien, but it sounds like the main races involved in this are humans, elves, evil elves, and orcs, correct?
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 11, 2015 21:31:02 GMT
And evil humans with twisted demonic freakazoid support.
They had dwarves, known as Squats, but they all got eaten by the Tyranids because Squats were stupid.
They did come up with some original things though. Tyranids are basically Starcraft's Zerg crossed with the aliens from Aliens. Except, of course, Starcraft based the Zerg on the Tyranids. The Tyranids came first.
Then the Necrons. We've talked about them before, and now they're ancient skeleton Egyptians that look annoyingly like some of those things from Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. They've got weapons that strip your body of its atoms, one layer at a time.
I suppose I should mention the Tau. Tau are blue humanoids with... well... odd foreheads? They're space communists and they shoot things because close combat just doesn't work for them. They've got Kroot allies, who are these weird bird things that evolve as they eat things and of which there are a large variety of, including humanoids. The Kroot are actually alright and take on the close combat role for the Tau all while giving a new meaning to the phrase "you are what you eat."
There are also some interesting races in the lore, but no models for them in the actual game. Hmm. Am I missing anyone?
|
|
|
Post by Horsie on May 11, 2015 21:34:13 GMT
Okay, and these other races have models? I just got the impression that the main ones were different varieties of human and elf, and orcs.
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 11, 2015 21:41:54 GMT
Tyranids, Necrons, and Tau have models, yes.
Actually, I think I'd say that Fantasy might be more diverse. Kinda.
Warhammer Fantasy includes Dwarves (fucking dwarves), but they've also got Egyptian style skeletons, Lizardmen, Beastmen (who are different from the Lizardmen), Rat people who are kinda like Zadakine but ugly and living underground. Oh, and Ogres, who are different from orks and goblins.
And the Bretonnians who are sort of Arthurian legend style humans are quite different from the Empire, who are basically the Holy Roman Empire. Though there are... actually three groups of Elves. High Elves, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves. No halflings, thank god, I suspect that if they ever existed, they were accidentally trodden upon by some errant Lizardmen.
|
|
|
Post by Horsie on May 11, 2015 21:49:03 GMT
Ugly? Clearly these knobs are trying to make rats feel bad. It certainly sounds like they have more diversity in their original lineup (I assume Warhammer came before Warhammer 40K).
|
|
|
Post by RED_NED on May 11, 2015 21:55:36 GMT
One thing that I think is important to keep in mind with Warhammer 40k is the time it was made. It came out in 1987 (4 years after the original Warhammer). It was made to be compatible with the fantasy game – using the same base rules and models, and was a time when playing mass battle wargames with anything other than historical figures was a relatively new concept.
40k (or 'Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader' as it was back then) was a very different beast to what it is now. The original sides were:
The Imperium of Man -Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Squats (Space Dwarves)
Eldar (Space Elves)
Orks (Space Orcs)
Slann (The ancient race, that looked like frog people of all things)
Tyranids (with a different background and ZOATS!)
Sometime after the rogue trader book came out (which was a much more free-form roleplaying book) a bunch of suppliments were released that changed a lot of things:
Genestealers were changed and became an army in their own right (they were not related to tyranids, but shortly after became part of their army)
Orks became Space Orks (probably to differentiate them from fantasy more) and were turned incredibly comical.
The Horus Heresy and Chaos was introduced. (yeah this wasn't in the original book. The Emperor originally just got old and withered rather than wounded by Horus)
Eldar were turned into a dying race.
The 2nd edition of 40k ditched the Rogue Trader Moniker, Slann and Squats got removed.
Tyranids got cleaned up, and became a proper army.
Necrons got added (although a rudimentary version)
The Imperium gained Sisters of Battle as an army.
3rd edition:
Dark Eldar were introduced (Space Dark Elves)
Tau were introduced (Anime robot lovers)
Necrons got cleaned up and became a proper army.
Orks got changed to be a serious race and less goofy.
|
|
|
Post by Horsie on May 11, 2015 22:04:48 GMT
That makes sense.
Are there many other big-name games like Warhammer?
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 11, 2015 22:13:42 GMT
None with quite the size, I think. At least, they're the only ones I've heard about.
|
|
|
Post by RED_NED on May 11, 2015 22:43:00 GMT
I guess it depends on what you consider 'Big Name'. Games-Workshop have made many games in the past that are still played, but not supported such as Epic 40k or Bloodbowl. Wargaming is a big business, and many third party companies exist: Privateer Press make Warmachine and Hordes which are quite popular, though more so in America than the UK I believe. Fantasy Flight make the excellent X-Wing if you count that (Wizkids make the star trek Version Attack Wing). Corvus Belli make the Sci-Fi skirmish game Infinity. Battletech has been around since forever. Mantic Games do loads of games too and are a popular gaming company. Theres tons and tons of smaller manufacturers, and many games that were really popular but are now out of print. I Think X-Wing and Warmachine are the ones that you are more likely to find people playing if you go to a wargaming club. And then there's always Historical Wargaming which is still popular.
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 11, 2015 23:19:07 GMT
I have been thinking of getting back into some Warhammer. Either Fantasy or Dark Eldar. I guess I'm feeling a little more artistic now. But I'm also bored of regular Eldar, who I have spent way too much on already. To Illustrate the cost: These guys are basically $3.5 per piece of plastic. That is... actually not that bad. www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Eldar-Kabalite-WarriorsThese are from their "Hobbit" version, and are $10 pieces of plastic. www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Gundabad-Orc-SwordsmenActually, the Dark Eldar are looking rather cheap at the moment. You know, in comparison. Wait, what about Fantasy? Oh, these High Elf Spearmen are about $2.65 each. That's actually pretty good. www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/High-Elf-SpearmenMaybe... wait, what is this? $9 a model? www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/High-Elf-Swordmasters-of-HoethEh. But then you have to glue them, spray paint them, and paint them. And you buy the equipment for that. I'll just link this... www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Painting-Modelling?N=102271+4294966261&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440136a-flatOkay, so you've got that stuff. Now you actually want to play? Well, you'll need the base rulebook. 40K is... $100, but only about a third of that is actual rulebook. So, maybe, say $35-$40 Fantasy? $90 www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Warhammer-Rulebook-ENThere, in case you didn't believe me. But then you need the specific traits and rules for the army you are collecting, of course. And you'll probably want this before you actually start getting models. Base cost for this? Oh, basically $60. www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Codex-Dark-Eldar-2014-EnglishYay.
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 11, 2015 23:30:47 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Horsie on May 11, 2015 23:44:55 GMT
The books are outrageously priced. For $100 I can buy 3 or 4 hardcover history books just as thick, so just imagine what their profit is compared to the cost of printing.
The supplies for putting the models together are pretty bad too, I'm sure you could get paint and contact cement that works just fine for a fraction of the price. Do people really buy their supplies from these guys?
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 12, 2015 1:06:56 GMT
The answer is yes. People do.
As for the rulebook... a cut down version is included in the "starter scenario" which is good because that starter scenario is actually kind of hilariously cheap when you consider what it comes with.
|
|
|
Post by Horsie on May 12, 2015 2:15:46 GMT
But why would someone shell out that much? Brand loyalty? Thinking that they're getting a better product?
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on May 12, 2015 2:43:48 GMT
I do think some of the models are nice. And, I'll admit this hesitantly, the High Elves in Fantasy are actually closer to how I picture Tolkien's Elves (at least in terms of looks) than the LOTR movies. Minus the over reliance on spears. Noldor were the sword elves, after all. Lindar (I think) were known as spear elves.
But the real thing for some is the lore and such. Which is okay by my standards.
What I find interesting is the scale and variety. Warhammer of either variety provides very many options with a wide range of scales. You can have small two squads and a leader scale type battles all the way up to a far greater number. It can be rather fascinating. There is just so much to work with and a lot of choice.
Yet more enjoy the artistic aspects. Customizing the models and painting them.
|
|