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Post by Horsie on Aug 17, 2015 23:39:14 GMT
He's got the money and ego needed to run.
He's only recently begun supporting the Republicans, he used donate money to the Democrats, and support things that the Republicans were against. I think he's stated that he might run as an independent if he doesn't get the Republican nomination, so it's obvious he's only interested in getting into the White House whatever way he can, or at least getting attention.
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Post by Canuovea on Aug 17, 2015 23:56:46 GMT
Or it is entirely possible he is interested in fucking up the Republicans.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Aug 18, 2015 2:52:03 GMT
Hahahahah. Ah. Wait, you're serious? Trump bankrupted something like four of his businesses after pocketing as much as he could. Obama has more or less stabilized a fucked up economy after a recession. Though I don't see how Trump could fuck up the international community's impressions of the USA more than Bush did. In fact, relations are better now just because Obama isn't Bush. So yeah. If Trump could fuck that up more... no wait, nevermind, yes he could. He is Trump. He is the quintessential asshole. He "stabilized" and economy by printing a lot of money. That chicken is gonna roost eventually. Essentially the US now owes more money than actually exists in the entire world. Something in the neighborhood of 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. If that's not a recipe for bankruptcy than I don't know what is. You can only hold those valves closed for so long before the boiler explodes. Regarding our international standing, Bush did a horrible job. Obama did a worse job. Bush at least didn't completely fuck up our relationship with Israel, fuck over Mubarak, and say "fuck it" to Iraq. At least our enemies has some reservations about screwing with Bush. Why not dick around with Obama? It's not like he'll do anything. I don't see how Trump could really do any worse than either of them. Nuke someone? I guess. That's about the only thing we haven't done yet. At least not in a while.
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Post by Canuovea on Aug 18, 2015 3:24:29 GMT
All I know is that the job rate is better than it has been under Bush, and the people I know who know Americans down south of the border know those Americans aren't being horribly fucked over by their economy at the moment.
Not sure where you get those numbers from either.
The enemies of the US weren't afraid of fucking with Bush, they in fact used that over aggression to draw the US into a costly and stupid war (or two), where the US actually put boots on the ground. This ruined the US economy and contributed to the crash of 08, not to mention cost far too many American lives.
Obama, on the other hand, has been fighting with advanced technology and limiting casualties. Drones are not the most ethical means of warfare, but far less costly to the US in the form of lives.
And for the record, to hell with Israel. They're getting worse and and worse with that yahoo in charge and definitely resembling an apartheid state. Kind of ironic. I used to support them almost fully.
Also, Canadians hated the US under Bush, and so did Europe. Americans were putting Canadian flags on their backpacks while travelling abroad. Now, of course we're about equally disliked (thanks Harper), but Obama has definitely improved the standing of the US abroad. With everyone except, maybe, Israel.
I'm not sure what you'd have preferred Obama did with Mubarak.
Trump is already infuriating China. Yes, lets antagonize the Chinese, shall we? That can't go badly at all.
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Post by Horsie on Aug 18, 2015 22:03:25 GMT
I think if the US started printing money with nothing to back it up, and tried to do it secretly, people would still notice before too long. Financial institutions would notice, economists would notice, financial advisers to foreign governments, foreign intelligence services. The US has a lot of enemies, and I'm sure a few of them (especially Russia) would pounce on something like that.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Aug 18, 2015 22:14:19 GMT
#s www.usdebtclock.org/Once you factor in the normal operating expenses for a military as large as ours, the war actually didn't cost much. Not as far as dollars are concerned. The largest contributors to the crash were sub prime mortgages, the housing bubble, and the loss of trillions of dollars in equity. Fighting who? Obama still hasn't outlined an enemy and explained to the world what we're fighting for, he just bombs people. And we still have to send people in to count body parts and decide whether or not the strike was successful. Either that or we're just guessing. Both of these make me extremely uncomfortable. It's a strange mental state to judge all the people in a geographical area based on your opinion of a single individual. Perhaps not incite the populace against an ally? Maybe more than he did for Ukraine? I donno... something maybe?
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Post by Harkovast on Aug 18, 2015 22:50:15 GMT
Urgh Wordweaver that is a question, Hillary or Trump.
I don't want to say Hillary...but even though shes a horrible, empty husk of a human being...at being a poltician she doesn't seem particularly incompetent. I don't like her (at all!) but she doesn't seem bad at the job.
Trump is like some kind of performance art he's so ridiculous. I wouldn't trust him with a hot dog cart, let alone a country.
I have to go Hillary and that really saddens me to say. I have to choose actual politcian who is evil over a baffoon who appears totally incompetent.
Being a bad person and being a bad leader are different things.
Urgh...whats wrong with the world?
I would probably just not vote and assume Trump would lose because...seriously? I mean....seriously?
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Post by Horsie on Aug 18, 2015 22:52:17 GMT
Still, where did you hear about all of that money that's being printed? Whenever I look up anything all I get is stories about Zimbabwe printing massive denomination bank notes.
Netenyahu and his people tend to ignore human rights when it comes to Palestinians living in the occupied territories, and I'm pretty sure building settlements in the occupied territories is illegal under the Geneva Convention. It's not all Israelis, and it seems that Arabs living within Israel are better off than Arabs living basically anywhere else in the Middle East, but the fact is that the government is doing things it shouldn't be under laws governing military occupations of foreign soil.
To be frank, I don't really support the Palestinians, and I'm suspicious of Muslims in general, but even I can see that Israel is kind of doing whatever it feels like and telling anyone who raises concerns to mind their own business, even if those concerns are reasonable and grounded in international law.
The thing about Europeans and Canadians though is true though, it doesn't matter if it's not right (and it certainly wasn't right to hate Americans because people didn't like Bush), but it's not like Americans aren't capable of doing the same thing, I've seen it before.
Mubarak gave orders (or at least allowed orders to go ahead) for the police and military to use heavy-handed methods against civilians. I think that's really what turned protests into a revolution, like it did in other parts of the Middle East.
I think we were better off with him in power, because at least Egypt was stable. I'm not sure how the Egyptians would feel about that, but I'm sure a not insignificant number would agree.
The problem is that the US would definitely lose face, not just in the Middle East, if they hit Gaddafi, threatened to hit Assad, and tried to help Mubarak stay in power.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Aug 18, 2015 22:55:07 GMT
Just to make you feel better, it's starting to look more and more like Hillary is gonna get "Obamad" again. By Bernie Sanders of all people.
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Post by Harkovast on Aug 18, 2015 23:00:25 GMT
I haven't looked into the guy but I hear him mentioned a lot on facebook.
Pretty sure he never got a rapist out of doing jail time though, so thats one up on Hillary.
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Post by Canuovea on Aug 18, 2015 23:18:28 GMT
Interesting numbers. I'm not sure how trustworthy the site is, but... also, it was at 10 trillion in 2008? So it went from around 3 trillion and going down in 2002 to 10 trillion in 2008?
And according to that same clock, the military is a ridiculous cost that can't possibly be necessary.
The war did contribute to spending, but I'll grant it wasn't the largest cause of debt
How many terrorist leaders did Bush get? Saddam doesn't count, he wasn't exactly Al-Queda affiliated.
And American casualties are also down, so... a win for Obama, really.
My thoughts on Israel are based on the policies of their government enacted by Netanyaho's party. Not all Israelis want to trend towards genocide, but hey, they re-elected the guy, so at least a majority do. No... that isn't entirely true either, they might just be afraid. But I've had enough of the Israeli government's actions.
Same with Bush, actually. People hated what Bush made the US do and that lead to them hating the US. Because the US became a force for evil (at least in many people's eyes). And to some, those in the US (and therefore supporting it) were evil due to association. And Bush isn't simply a single individual, he was making policy for the whole country. It isn't like hating the US because nobody likes some random fellow who has no control over the country's international actions.
Do I agree with this broad painting of people? No. You have heard how someone threw a rock at my girlfriend's head when she first came up here, right? Because she was American? She didn't even like Bush. So while I don't like that kind of behaviour, it goes to show just how badly people hated Bush and, by extension, the US.
The Arab Spring wasn't really incited by the US. And of course it was going to take it's course.
Ukraine? Obama is fucking the Russians up pretty badly right now over Ukraine. Their economy is now in shambles and will be for some time until oil prices come back up. It isn't helping Canada either, though, since Harper and Clark decided to put all our eggs in the Oil basket.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Aug 18, 2015 23:18:47 GMT
Bernie is a no BS socialist. He doesn't beat around the bush about it, he freely admits it. So he's got the honesty thing on her too. He's kind of a crazy looking guy who doesn't appear to own any hair care products, or even a comb.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Aug 19, 2015 0:17:51 GMT
Interesting numbers. I'm not sure how trustworthy the site is, but... also, it was at 10 trillion in 2008? So it went from around 3 trillion and going down in 2002 to 10 trillion in 2008? Bush spent money like a drunken sailor, there's no doubt about that. Agreed. That might shock some folks cuz I'm on the conservative side, but I've never fallen for the Republican line that it's conservative to support the military at any price. The military is bloated and redundant. If you have an army what the fuck do you need Marines for? If you have a navy what the fuck do you need the Coast Guard for? The US Constitution explicitly forbids a standing army in times of peace, which is where the "war on" phenomenon comes from. During the Cold War we conveniently had a War on Communism. And since redundancy is so useful we also had a War on Drugs and a War on Poverty. Nice little loophole. Of course once the USSR fell we had little excuse for a large military. Still had that War on Drugs and Poverty, so hurrah for the Military Industrial Complex. The War on Terror is almost a godsend for them and I'm actually shocked it took 9/11 for that to come up. Cuz we've been attacked by terrorist prior to that and nobody took it seriously. "This war on terror may take 100 years", whew! That was a close one! We almost had to disband our military. Okay, yes, I'm a realist. I know there will never be a time for zero military in the US. Someone's gotta guard the nukes and an invasion can happen faster than a sailing ship nowadays. But I'd really like a smaller, more efficient, less costly military. We seriously don't need the ability to fight two wars on two fronts at any given time. Also, our allies using our military as an extension (or even a substitute) for their own? That's gotta stop. Either that or start paying us for the privilege. And yet Hillary Clinton is perfectly willing to take full credit for it. Netanyahu didn't just win based on the Jewish vote, he had the majority of the Muslim vote in his country as well (or so I've heard). These are people who live in a very small country surrounded by countries and settlements that don't particularly care for them. The US was on the verge backing down from their responsibilities in Iraq and there were signs of uprising in several neighboring states. Israel was looking for strong leadership and Netanyahu promised that to them. Plus he was someone they knew had political standing on a worldwide stage, whether for good or ill. It's hard to blame them for that. Aaaaand I think we've completely gotten away from the point of this thread.
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Post by Canuovea on Aug 19, 2015 0:26:59 GMT
Bush spent money, and spent it badly.
Yeah, the US military is definitely bloated.
Hillary is basically a psychopath.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't get the majority of the Muslim vote. There is actually an Arab based party that got most of the Arab vote in Israel, and they've not joined his ruling coalition. He got a majority, but barely.
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Post by Harkovast on Aug 19, 2015 18:01:49 GMT
Trump just insulted Hiedi Klum saying she is no longer a ten. Well when you look as good as Trump, I guess you are in a position to judge. Damn, he so fine! And yet his lead continues to grow.
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