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Post by Horsie on Apr 29, 2015 1:52:43 GMT
I guess when I tried understanding this I just kept coming across the factions that fight because they like to fight.
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Post by Canuovea on Apr 29, 2015 2:01:37 GMT
Dark Eldar, Orks, and a bunch of the Chaos people for sure.
Tyranids don't "like" to fight per se, they just... do.
Necrons eat souls or something, but that might be due to revenge. And may have been retconned.
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Post by StyxD on Apr 29, 2015 16:47:43 GMT
I think I see what you mean, Hark. The sexism is not by design, but because it just doesn't occur to them to put women somewhere, without making it a special trait of the given unit / organization.
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Post by Harkovast on Apr 29, 2015 17:24:23 GMT
So, what is everyone fighting for in Warhammer? That is literally the best Warhammer related question anyone has ever asked! I sort of suspect the wars of the Imperium got going a bit like this... Canuovea's post also made me smile, as the Necron Retcon is going to be the topic of my next grim derp.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 9, 2015 12:13:36 GMT
So one time, an inquisitor found out that a chapter of space marines (the sons of malice) were doing weird cannibal/human sacrifice rituals. Now a lot of space marines do some really barbaric, crazy shit like that in their weird, monastic war cults, but the inquisitor was not familiar with this, assumed they were evi, and launched a surprise attack in the middle of the ritual.
She arrived with a load of elite sisters of battle (called celestians) who teleported in and started shooting.
Guess how this turned out?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 9, 2015 18:41:47 GMT
The Sisters of battle murdered the shit out of the superhuman, GW flagship race, Space Marines?
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 9, 2015 18:52:42 GMT
Well you see the inquisitor and her retinue of elite warriors made one major mistake... They have wombs. And unfortunately, in GW lore having female reproductive organs means you are going to get horribly multilated and murdered.
Not only did the celestians get soundly beaten, the inquisitor herself being captured and sacrificed as part of the marines ritual.
This caused the Marines to get excomunicated and flee into the eye of terror and turning to chaos (how original.)
Yeah, even when the most elite sisters of battle get the drop on marines who are in the middle of a ritual and aren't expecting it, the marines still wipe the flaw with them. Inquisitors are normally ridiculously unstoppable bad asses, but on this rare occasional that the inquisitor is female? She fails miserably to stop the space marines AND acutally gets captured and sacrificed in the very ritual she was trying to stop. Cause killing isn't enough, we've got to humiliate the ladies as well.
It all starts to get kinda Freudian.
On a completely unrelated note...I can't figure out why more women don't play games workshop games? I guess its one of those unsolvable mysteries we will never know the answer to.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 9, 2015 19:11:20 GMT
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Post by StyxD on Jun 9, 2015 21:45:47 GMT
Are you sure they did? I mean, this is WH40K. Weird shit happens there. Some of them might have had their reproductive organs removed. If you want Freudian, look no further than bolt weaponry. But honestly, what's that with Marines slaughtering Sisters? I thought it was an isolated episode of derp. Perhaps they're put off by GW's business practices?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 9, 2015 22:12:22 GMT
But realistically speaking, Hark... that would be like expecting elite soldiers to take on even more elite soldiers who are genetically augmented. In the fluff, Space Marines are considerably more OP than in the tabletop game (because male power fantasy?). Really, that result does make sense given the fluff. And, to quote Farseer Macha "You can never ambush a Space Marine..."
At least Space Marines can't reproduce. So there is that. All the ladies love the imperial guardsmen (hell, some ARE imperial guard) more no matter what the Space Marines do.
The Space Marines are basically an all boy's club. It was created by people who wanted men to be "special". Because, again, in the fluff, the Emperor wasn't actually smart enough to get around the limitations a woman's body gives her that prevents the space marine augmentation thing from working. It only works on men because only men can do it because... genetics? The Emperor only bothered with men? I dunno. Why did they choose to have that in the fluff? I bet it boiled down to a combination of "girls are icky" and "CROM! I MANLY!"
To be fair, the Sisters of Battle are pretty fucked up too. Like they were designed by people who thought women were psychos or something.
I think this covers it pretty well:
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Post by StyxD on Jun 9, 2015 22:49:44 GMT
It mutates their dongs into all those awesome genetic augmentations, rendering them sterile in the process. This is not easily replicated in a woman, apparently.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 9, 2015 23:14:30 GMT
Canouvea by that logic why even have other fations if even there elite troops can't beat space marines under any circumstances? Why even have other factions is there is seriously no way to beat space marines? Compared to the celestines spaces marines ACTAULLY have the advantage of +1 str and toughness and weapon skill (possibly balistic skill, I would have to check that) in the game and better leadership. hardly invincible! They use the same power armour and bolt weapons.
Sisters of battle also get faith based powers space marines don't get.
I know space marines are better, I am not desputing that...but the idea that no amoutn of sisters of battle, with no level of eliteness and no tactical advantage can defeat them? Or even fight them without it becoming humiliating? Seriously? If we are at that level then why even have fluff? If I wanked to masturbate to a picture of a space marine I can do that myself. It's not even like its some kind of tough fight. Its presented like the sisters foolishly bit off more than they could chew by angering the space marines...by appearing in the middle of their feast and blasting them at point blank range. Apparantly that just makes space marines annoyed so they kill you. And not just kill you! Totally beat you in a humilating fashion. Space marines just aren't that tough. That's silly. And sisters of battle (and inquisitors!) aren't that incompetent, that is also silly. You can't even claim sisters of battle dont know how tough space marines are...they ear the exact same armour!
Just from a marketing point of view, if you want to sell anything other than space marines, you kinda have to have them lose now and then. Also if you want to sell sisters of battle...you kinda have to have them win now and then.
The sisters of battle always lose in the background and their defeats are usually humiliating. Its frankly a bit creepy.
StyxD sacrificing sisters of battle has happened several times (remember the grey knights sacrificing them to stop daemons?) When they aren't being sacrificed they are being killed off by some other faction to show how tough they are. Remember, these ladies are the only faction to be bit players in their OWN backstory!
As for female imperial guard, those brave women are so significant they don't get any models. I think there have been two female imperial guard given models. That's literally two total. THey were in teh last chancers squad (the imperial guard dirty dozen), being called warrior woman and rocket girl (Their gender was noted in their names, cause female imperial guard...how weird is that?) So that's two troopers...total. There are also no pictures of these female troopers in any of the books. In the computer games nad books you get more, because those aren't made by GW. So there are billions of women fighting in the imperial guard...but you can't happen to never, ever, EVER see them. Maybe looking at women is heresy? Or all imperial guard women look like men due to hormones they all take?
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Post by StyxD on Jun 9, 2015 23:19:13 GMT
So. Very. Freudian.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 9, 2015 23:19:36 GMT
The reason they made space marines all male is the same reason you never see imperial guard women and virtually every names personality in the entire background (every named high lord of terra that wasn't a memberof th sisters of battle, for example...cause you need a scrotum to join the machine cult or run the administratum I guess?).
It just never occured to them to do it any other way. They didn't deliberately leave women out. They just never thought of including them.
The constant need to show the sisters of battle being murdered...that is more up for debate as to the motivation.
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Post by zaealix on Jun 9, 2015 23:21:57 GMT
I can't help but wonder just harkovast amazon brigades there are, and how much more successful they are than the sisters of battle. (Before anyone asks, I mean a standing army, not a team of warriors who happen to be female which might happen in the RPG by happenstance.)
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