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Post by Horsie on Jun 13, 2015 4:04:22 GMT
So if firearms are shit, including ones shoot flechettes at incredible speeds, and pistols that use explosive .75cal rounds, why does everyone seem to have a sword? They can't honestly be trying to say that swords are better than these outrageous guns?
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 4:26:57 GMT
Power weapons can be, as they ignore regular armour entirely. But mostly they're not.
An Eldar will have a Strength of "3" and sometimes with special weapons "4". Unless armed with power weapons, they have to get through armour in close combat.
For comparison, a lasgun (basic human fodder soldier flashlight laser gun) also has strength 3. Bolters and Eldar Shuriken catapults (? I know, weird, right?) have strength 4. So they hit as hard as a Space Marine in close combat, and both ignore armour saves of 5+ (Space Marines usually have 3+ Terminators have 2+). Basically, to take an armour save you role the dice and if your save is 3+ then any role of the dice of 3 and up means your soldier is okay.
Of course, you can't shoot your weapons into close combat (though pistols do count as an additional close combat weapon). And if you have two close combat weapons (like a sword and pistol) you gain an extra close combat attack. So if close combat specialists can actually get close enough to engage regular infantry, they usually have a good chance of winning.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 17:51:07 GMT
The background would involve an evil tyrant taking over the Imperium, controlling the church and the government and going ape shit and plunging the imperium into civil war.
Then, an obscure religious order of warrior women calling themselves "the sister of battle" would start rallying support to over throw this tyrant. He would try to get rid of them, but their bad assitude and fate conspiring against him (what the sisters call "miracles") work to turn the tide against him. The space marines and the forces of mars don't want to get involved in this (as they don't generally meddle in the politcs of the wider Imperium) but eventually join in to help over throw him. The sisters are seen as the saviour of the Imperium, and reestablish the church with themselves as its army, massively expanding their recruitment and power, while the previous church armies are all disbanded. The Space Marines and Mars Priests failure to get involved sooner, combined with their weird variations from established dogma sow the seeds of resentment that the sisters would never fully forgive. All leaders of the Ecclesiarchy from this point on would be the leaders of the sisters of battle, who now hold total authority over the church.
I would also do this not as some back ground info in a codex, I would have done it as a global event. Like the I'd release information and campaign books about the Imperium in chaos and civil war and a corrupt tyrant taking power, and this new army of warrior women who were out to restore order. Eventually the sisters would win and I would declare this was how everything worked now. It would seem to shake things up, but actually is not as big a change as it seems (since the ecclesiarchy is in the background rather than the table top mostly) but it would shake people up that the imperium had just under gone a bit reorganisation and would set up the sisters as a force to be reconed with.
Rather than the misguided concubines of a big bad guy in the background, who need some men to mansplain to them why they are backing (and fucking) the wrong side.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 18:01:07 GMT
That would work.
Though I like them as being the baddies. The basic idea of them being on the good people's side from the get go... I dunno. Maybe it is just that I detest the Ecclesiarchy.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 18:12:57 GMT
Well remember that while they restore order, they are total fascists who view everyone who deviates from what they believe as deserving immediate death. They can't go after the space marines or mars in a big way, but once they take over they would set about purging the populacein general and making sure religious teachings are were enforced to eliminate any dangerous original thinking or individuality that might have cropped up. Them saving the Imperium sets them up as bad asses that are competent and don't fuck around. Once they are in power their authority will be very brutal. They are very devout and practice what they preach, so they aren't corrupt...but everything they believe in is intolerance, hatred, violence and ignorance. The penitant ones who don;t wear the armour and use big chainsaws would be ones who had started having dangerous "original ideas" or found themselves questioning any of their tenants. Sisters would despise such corruption in themselves and would eagerly submit to brutal rituals to eliminate any potentially dangerous thoughts.
All the quotes in the book should be creepy things about the beautiful spiritual cleansing someone goes through once they are entirely immolated and how unending hate is the uniting force that will bring mankind to salvation.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 18:21:21 GMT
I pretty much refuse to look upon the Ecclesiarchy as having ever done anything good for anyone ever.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 18:34:18 GMT
Think about it like this...the ecclesiarchy was destroying the Imperium. They took it over and stopped it doing that. The organisation didn't do something good, it just stopped destroying the Imperium. Its now dealing out a more efficient, less immediately self destructive form of religious persecution, based on enforcing their insane dogma rather than the whims of a mad tyrant.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 18:38:00 GMT
I suppose that makes sense.
But it still stopped the Imperium from being destroyed. Which is, theoretically, good.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 18:48:22 GMT
If you want to be that pedantic, the sisters were not in the ecclesiarchy when they did that. They became the ecclesiarchy by destroying the old one and burning all the priests and bishops are heretics. Big stacks of burning bodies! Hooray!
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Post by StyxD on Jun 13, 2015 18:51:58 GMT
Remember, the Imperium is (theoretically) supposed to treat men and women as equal. Hence, I don't know where the Sisters could get that idea. Also, sterilizing themselves might look like an attempt to one up the Marines (who are infertile to begin with), so I don't know if they would want to do that.
Unlike the rest of the fascist Imperium?
Hark, your scenario misses one thing: an explanation why they are all women. I'm not saying that the official one is good, but at least it is.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 19:03:35 GMT
I suppose.
Edit: Of course they'd want to one up the Space Marines. In Hark's version, those two hate each other.
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Post by StyxD on Jun 13, 2015 19:45:55 GMT
But I expect thy wouldn't want to do it... overtly. Lest they'd admit they're playing catch up.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 13, 2015 19:51:15 GMT
Maybe? It could also be something done to the Sisters Repentia as a symbolic severing of the chance to reproduce their dangerous ideas/critical thinking/individuality.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 22:57:33 GMT
I don't think there needs to be a special reason they are all women. They are an order of nuns that became large and powerful and have kept the same organisational structure. There would be male monks and priests, but the sisters of battle are the only ones trusted to fight for the church. Its not based on their gender, its based on their track record. There are also other female religous orders, but they didn't win the lottery of fate and gain galactic power. Their gender is just an incidental factor.
If they were warrior monks no one would ask for a special reson for them to be all men. I think acting like women need an extra justification to be present seems a bit of double standard.
There are lots of religious orders, it just happened to be this one that came out on top and restored order. To suggest letting men in would imply you want to change their dogma. Suggesting changing dogma literally makes the sisters heads hurt and causes them to break out the bolters.
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Post by Harkovast on Jun 13, 2015 23:01:00 GMT
I assumed remove their reproductive system would be so they had no distractions from violently promoting their religion. Its quite possible most orders would consider this excessive and think targetted brain surgery was more than enough to stem any temptation. After all, brain surgery keeps them from wanting to indulge in other pleasures outside of praying and shooting things.
Yes, these are ladies so extreme that they consider brain surgery a more moderate option.
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