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Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 1:17:02 GMT
Oh a personal note...the way this movie makes gigantic mega space ships seem like useless trash was very offensive to me.
Gigantic mega space ships are fucking bad ass! I want huge super space structures (i'm not saying they have to look like churches, but I wont complain if they do) that are fucking unstoppable planet crushing engines of oblivion.
Every large ship in this film is a fucking joke!
This is not acceptable!
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 1:40:01 GMT
The biggest problem with how they ended it was: What the fuck do you do now? There is seriously no place for the story to go other than the First Order chasing after a couple of Rebels. Which was the exact same plot as this movie only it would be on a smaller scale.
If they ended it after the Snoke thing than you'd still have Luke alive and kicking so we can actually do something with his character to end it right. If you have Rey join with Kylo you have an ending that is 180 degrees different from the ending of Empire (wouldn't that subvert our expectations?). You'd have motivation for Finn in the next movie (Which I guarantee you now he's going to have the same story arc that he had in Awakens and Last where he learns to stop running away). The Rebels would have more than the dozen or so members that were on the Falcon at the end. I know they're conveniently going to have thousands of rebels in the next movie, even though this movie showed that NOBODY in the universe was willing to stand up to the First Order, but whatever.
Really, the best way to have the next movie start is to have the Falcon drop out of hyperspace only to discover that a Star Destroyer happened to track them through hyperspace. Then the SD blows them to pieces so we can try again.
Either that or we discover that the entire Last Jedi movie was just a vision that Luke had, and it fades back to him on the cliff with Rey standing in front of him holding the lightsaber. He says: "Whoa! That was awful. I gotta start training you, Rey."
Actually that would work if it happened right after the Falcon blows up.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 1:47:20 GMT
Oh a personal note...the way this movie makes gigantic mega space ships seem like useless trash was very offensive to me. Gigantic mega space ships are fucking bad ass! I want huge super space structures (i'm not saying they have to look like churches, but I wont complain if they do) that are fucking unstoppable planet crushing engines of oblivion. Every large ship in this film is a fucking joke! This is not acceptable!
Yeah, it makes you wonder why anybody spends any money on anything larger than a transport ship.
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Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 1:49:32 GMT
The First Order can't track the falcon this time because....Force?
The next film will be a time jump ahead, which makes this one completely pointless. All that was acheived is the rebels fled, and some got away to carry on rebelling. It was one scene worth of plot. The only other events were Snoke and Luke finally showing up and then both being useless and dying.
I guess the first order will have some new evil plan or something? Its pretty much goign to have to be a whole new thing now, as there is no plot hook to go with. In the mean time the rebels will have got loads of new people and the First order will have rebuilt all their ships...so yeah 6 movies into this war and STILL no progress. The two sides just keep right on killing each other pointlessly. The empire always take massively more casualties, but just replace them all again so I guess who cares?
I guess this time they will over throw the evil empire and reestablish a new shit space democracy in a way that it wont just get over thrown again in a few decades.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 1:58:37 GMT
You know, they could have saved themselves a lot of bullshitting time in Last if they had just said that only the one ship had a tracker.
"So we blow that one up."
"I like the way you're thinking, but they'll just start tracking us from another ship."
Wouldn't a better response have been:
"I like the way you're thinking, but how the fuck are we going to do that?"
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Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 3:59:38 GMT
"Full marks of enthusiasm there, Poe...but if we could blow up the First Order ships we wouldn't need to fucking run away would we you, freaking maniac?"
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 4:28:42 GMT
That's much better, but it's also too smart for Finn to say.
Here's something I just realized.
They're going to kill Chewbacca in the next movie. I mean, after they kill Leia off-screen. Maybe they'll bring in Lando so they can kick his character in the nuts before stabbing him with a lightsaber.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 4:43:18 GMT
Another thing:
Why is Chewbacca even still hanging around? The reason he was with Han for so long was he had a life debt or something which eventually blossomed into a full friendship. With Han dead there's nothing keeping him from going home (he does have a wife and kid). What's more, by rights the Falcon belongs to him. Why the hell is he carting around this bitch he just met that's acting like the ship belongs to her? Hasn't he done enough saving the universe crap by now?
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 6:02:45 GMT
Aaaaaand just found out they signed Billy Dee Williams for episode 9.
So he's gonna die too.
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Post by Canuovea on Sept 3, 2018 15:44:48 GMT
Better than randomly killing Chewie off due to the Vong.
Now I want them to kill all the old characters off so you will be sad.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 16:51:55 GMT
My issue isn't that they're killing characters I like and have grown up with, it's that all these deaths are fairly meaningless from a storytelling point of view. You set up heroes so they can either win or die heroically. So far the closest thing to a heroic death so far was Han, who probably knew there was a good chance Kylo would kill him but went to him anyway. He essentially fell on that lightsaber with only hope that he could turn his son back to the light. It's just a bit distressing he took so long to try.
They're killing old characters specifically to pave the way for their new characters. It comes off as assembly line cattle to the slaughter instead of essential to the narrative of the story. What's more, simply killing them isn't good enough, they have to flog their character first just to make sure we have no choice but to accept their new characters. But if they would simply write characters that didn't suck in the first place we'd all be on board with this and they could kill off the old characters in a more respectful way.
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Post by Canuovea on Sept 3, 2018 17:12:47 GMT
I think Luke's death was both super heroic and essentially Jedi.
And perfectly plot appropriate.
Assuming he knew he would die after doing what he did, he singlehandedly rekindled hope (or brought about a New Hope if you will), saved the good guys, and inspired a galaxy. All, I must point out, without making a single attack. That sounds like he sacrificed himself for quite a bit. Generally sacrificing oneself for the greater good is considered heroic. Or at least a heroic way to go.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 20:10:05 GMT
Luke made an intergalactic prank call using the force and died from a heart attack afterward.
That seems to fit just fine with the Luke who would try to murder his nephew in his sleep, but it doesn't strike me as incredibly heroic. Heroic for a coward, but not heroic for a character established as better than that in previous movies.
Plus if he was going to die anyway he may as well have just shown up. Why the subterfuge if he was going to die either way?
Not to mention I'm not sure how it would rekindle hope if the only witnesses to the event were the bad guys. From the point of view of the guys piloting the AT-AT things it would have looked like Kylo stabbed Luke and he vanished. Which is how we've established Jedi die in the first place.
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Post by Canuovea on Sept 3, 2018 20:50:33 GMT
I frankly don't think any of you understand this movie.
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Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 20:53:37 GMT
I dont understand how what Luke did brought hope back to the galaxy. Who told everyone? The 12 people on the falcon? They didn't even see it. They just know Luke went out there, they didn't wait to see how it ended. Even if they did, why would everyone believe this story or care?
Saving people is great and all, but 12 people in the scheme of things doesn't seem like a big deal. I think when everyone was hoping he was going to come help they were expecting something a bit more substantial? he didn't save "everybody". Nearly everyone was already dead because he was being a coward. He saved a tiny fraction of the rebels, and then it only worked because the first order didn't just use the hyper space tracker again.
Did the first order tell everyone about what Luke did? Is that how they knew? Why would they do that? wouldn't they push their own version where Kylo is awesome and saved the day? Since they rule the galaxy now, I would have thought they could get their message out better than 12 guys on a 40 year old ship.
I think they will NOT kill Chewie.
The reason is...you can put anyone in the costume. The other actors are getting old but Chewie can be infinitely replaced. Yeah he's been reduced to the status of a pet dog that seems to come with the falcon, but he will stick around. He's a bit part at this stage anyway, so killing him wouldn't have much impact. He SHOULD have died when Han did. They should have gone out together. Without Han its like having just one Blues Brother, its just depressing.
It is a curious point that Luke being a hologram was actually pointless, as he still died. It's not really a trick if you just drop dead anyway. Its like a suit of armour that stops bullets but also injects you with fatal poison when you put it on.
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