|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 21:06:11 GMT
Hahaha Canuovea sorry it just doesn't seem to be clicking with us, does it?
Though claiming you understood it better is quite a claim, I must put it to the test...
Can you explain how everyone, including slave kids in a stable, knew what Luke did? When there were no witnesses except the bad guys, and other than them only a handful of surviving good guys on one ship knew about it? I understand that it was supposed to bring Hope back to the Galaxy, what I don't understand is how that worked in practical terms in universe. Did the good guys go and tell the slave kids? While there did they explain why they didn't rescue any of them as well?
|
|
|
Post by Canuovea on Sept 3, 2018 21:10:20 GMT
That's a tiny detail that can easily be handwaved away.
First of all, the First Order might be the baddies, but not only might they have recorded it, but it could easily have spread from their ranks. People talk. Disaffected soldiers talk. Hell, its possible some defected after Snoke died because they don't like Kylo Ren. There are plenty of ways it might have spread. The movie doesn't need to hold your hand for that part, it would have affected pacing.
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 21:21:56 GMT
See when ever you defend this film, you end up writing this big fan fictions to fill in the gaps, where now the First Order soldiers are all disaffected and were super impressed with Luke and told everyone how cool he was. I didn't think he accomplished much when I saw it, I dont see how the story of how Luke briefly delayed the Empire before they stormed the rebel base and a tiny handful of rebels ran away would be that inspiring. Maybe if I was a slave kid I would think it was more awesome.
This wasn't implied in any way in the movie, you aren't basing anything on what we saw on screen. As I demonstrated before, its easy to make up things to fill in the plot wholes if you just invent them out of whole cloth. You cna do that for anyn film and make it make sense. I can make the room make sense if I assume everyone involved is a space alien immittating a human.
See this seems to demonstrate that we all understood the movie, but you are willing to make stuff up to fill in the gaps more. We are both aware of the bits that don't really make sense, but you make allowance for them. It doesn't seem like a matter of anyone lacking understanding.
Another wierd thing...why at the end were the rebels all so happy? They were hugging and cheerful and Leia was saying "We have everything we need right here." or whatever.
They were all treating it like they wont some kind of victory because 10 people got away with one freighter. 95% of their people were dead and everything has been destroyed. From their point of view the galactic government blew up a couple of days ago at most. Why was the mood so positive in the fast of such horrendous carnage? Yeah I am sure they were glad they escaped, but if everyone I knew was dead, the government destroyed and I was on the run from the space nazis over the course of a weekend, I wouldn't be in a happy mood and giving high fives!
|
|
|
Post by StyxD on Sept 3, 2018 21:32:45 GMT
Its like a suit of armour that stops bullets but also injects you with fatal poison when you put it on. I'm pretty sure it was implemented in someone's fantasy story. If it wasn't, it should be! I do kinda wonder why, if they wanted Luke to die anyway, they didn't just have him fight in person and perish. Is there a narrative explanation for that hologram fight?
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 22:24:22 GMT
When Obi Wan realised it was time to die, he just let Vader swing at him and vanished. All the hologram stuff seems to over complicate it for no real pay off.
I was thinking about it, and this idea that subversive elements of the first order spread the news about Luke...that's not a trivial detail. That's HUGE! Much more important than the fact slave kids were impressed. I always assumed most of the first order were brain washed cannon fodder, with only Finn realising whats up (hence why its okay to merciless kill so many of them.) But this would mean there were substantial numbers of them who dislike the organisation, thought Luke seemed awesome for opposing them and are actively spreading Anti-Empire propaganda. If this was true it totally changes the entire context. That means the First Order is already coming apart and Kylo has a shaky grip on power. This seems totally at odds with the way the movie presented events.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 3, 2018 23:31:17 GMT
I totally get why Canuovea enjoyed the movie. I really do. It's a very good looking movie with some really kick ass scenes. And I'm not saying him enjoying it was wrong. Like I said, I inexplicably love Genisys even though I am fully aware that it is a bad movie. Sometimes something fanfic oriented just clicks with you. To be perfectly honest we're being very nitpickie about the plot (above and beyond CinemaSins). No movie is perfect, but the problem is that the very blatant flaws start to point at the more minor ones. If you're willing to overlook the major flaws at the behest of the film than the minor ones are going to seem inconsequential anyway. People like Hark and I who had such high expectations for these films simply can't do that. Perhaps our expectations were too high, but we can't forgive major mistakes in continuity, narrative, and character when they stick out like a sore thumb and don't destroy the cohesion of the story simply because the writer is ignoring them.
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 3, 2018 23:36:19 GMT
Regarding nitpicking, this is true, but I feel justified because to me there are barely any elements that make sense. Its like a death by a thousand cuts where every single action doesn't really make sense and just exists to justify the next action...which also doesn't make sense!
If someone enjoys this movie, or any other shit movie, more power to them. I like School of Rock and I don't care who knows it!
Regarding the experience of Last Jedi, I was genuinely horrified as I watched it in the cinema. My reaction went from stunned, to horrified to laughing manically because the movie had completely broken me. I simply didn't like it when I watched it and by the end I was really annoyed with the whole experience.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 4, 2018 2:32:42 GMT
Now if you really want to see someone go bonkers over nitpicking the movie.
And that's just his first impressions rant. He also has a three part critique that is FIVE HOURS LONG.
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 4, 2018 20:57:29 GMT
Actually I just realised something even more stupid about that ending... Earlier on they destroy the Dreadnaught and that makes everyone sad becuase a lot of ships died doing it.
Then at the end of the film they manage to run away but almost everyone but a about a dozen survive and all they achieve was running away, without finding away to stop the hyper space tracker, but they are all happy.
The good guys have really wierd random moods!
I guess they just really liked the people on those bombers. Rose's Sister was the life of the party, so they were sad but everyone who died later must have been an asshole.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 4, 2018 23:58:17 GMT
In the next movie they'll all commit suicide because of survivors guilt.
I mean, I hope they do.
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 5, 2018 16:57:47 GMT
Ironically, the Tie Pilots suffered less than the audience having to watch this nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 6, 2018 0:05:04 GMT
"Woo! I like this!"
Glad she had so much fun while everyone died.
*Sigh*
So much lost potential in these movies. A lot of good ideas drowning in so much incompetent storytelling.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 6, 2018 0:10:05 GMT
I move we retire the term "Mary-Sue". It's no longer relevant. Technically Mary-Sue isn't even a "Mary-Sue" anymore. We've moved beyond that in poor character development.
I suggest we coin the new term "Rey".
|
|
|
Post by Harkovast on Sept 6, 2018 2:00:42 GMT
I didn't even know shots could pass through ships in star wars. Previously they always detonated when they hit the ship. I've never seen blaster shots go through anything that I can think of.
But Rey, firing a space ship turret for the first time in her life (check the movies, she has flown the falcon but shes never been firing the turret before) manages a triple kill. If she had been in the turret in the first film when they were fleeing those 2 Tie fighters, shit would have got done a lot faster, I guess!
And "woo I like this" is a fucking terrible line.
She's such a fucking Rey. (Wow, yeah it does work.)
Mind you, in this film Finn can fly space ships, despite having specifically said he can't do that at the start of the previous film (which took place only days before the events we see here.) He never had any training and was unconscious in the time between movies. So I guess people can just do whatever is required at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by wordweaver3 on Sept 6, 2018 3:21:11 GMT
Probably they left out the scene where she modified the blasters to be super powerful, cuz working as a scrapper on a desert planet gave her that skill.
The depressing thing is that almost every problem with these movies would be so easy to fix, most of the tools to do it were right on screen, but nobody had the desire to do so. They just wanted to jam their poorly thought out story into the theaters because it didn't matter what it was people would watch it.
"The unfortunate reality is that they'll be around...
...forever.
They will never go away.
It can never be undone."
Bad storytelling begets bad storytelling. I guess we can blame Lucas for this. Though I'm having a hard time saying the prequels are bad anymore now that there is an even worse light to hold it up to.
Maybe... Star Wars just sucks? Maybe it always sucked and I didn't see how badly until Holdo showed up with her glowing halo and sacrificed herself to the gods of canon.
|
|