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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 22:50:48 GMT
Well if you think it had deep and meaningful themes, again its good that you got a lot out of it. To me it seemed completely hollow and like almost no thought had gone into anything that was happening.
It's hard for me to reply becuae to me that's like someone watching transformers and talking abotu the deep moral themes that were raised by blowing up megatron.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 22:56:07 GMT
This from StyxD kinda sums it up well-
If it IS good writing its good writing that just happens to look like exactly what you would get if hte writers couldn't think of anything clever to fill in the gaps the last film left.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 23:00:28 GMT
Extended mark Hamil reaction. God bless you, Mark.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Dec 22, 2017 23:46:09 GMT
Mark raises an interesting point. It's not about how good it is it's about how much money it can make. The thing is if the first Star Wars was badly written tripe than THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING MONEY TO MAKE! Sure you can make money off of it now with a half assed sequel featuring lots of gee wiz special effects, but there's nothing really special about those effects anymore. They're in every single movie. Think of how much more money they could make if people walked out of the theater really enamored with the characters and plot instead of furious that nothing made sense.
The mind boggling thing is look at the Marvel movies! They're owned by the same company! If the first Iron Man was a crap fest of special effects with characters we didn't like the whole experiment would have collapsed. There would be no Avengers (1.5 billion dollars), no Age of Ultron (1.4 billion dollars), no Guardians of the Galaxy (800 million)... you see where I'm going with this?
And this is done with Marvel's famously weak villains. Kylo Ren is a very good basis for a villain. There is a lot you can do with this character, but they're squandering it so badly.
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 23:56:29 GMT
Hardly squandering Kylo... he is actually the principal villain now.
Anyway... I have enjoyed some Marvel films but only really liked a select few. I liked Star Wars but as for how it compares... I liked it better than Thor Ragnarok but it wasn't as good as Guardians 2. So far Guardians 2 is my favourite movie of the year and of Marvels MCU.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 23, 2017 0:09:11 GMT
Guardians 2 was really great. And unusually for a marvel film had a cool villain.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Dec 23, 2017 0:56:45 GMT
Anyway... I have enjoyed some Marvel films but only really liked a select few. I liked Star Wars but as for how it compares... I liked it better than Thor Ragnarok but it wasn't as good as Guardians 2. So far Guardians 2 is my favourite movie of the year and of Marvels MCU. This is my point. You don't have to like all the movies, but all the movies stem from the same source. It's all the same universe and they're all interconnected. The movies don't make any attempt to alienate any of their audience and don't step on each other's toes. You can watch them all, or you can watch some of them. Either way they make money. What's more the amount of money they can make expands with each new installment. Five years ago only comic readers were even aware of Guardians of the Galaxy, now almost everyone is familiar with it as a fun space romp. Star Wars is it's own defined universe where it keeps trampling all over itself. Kylo Ren is a good character, but he's in service to a bad movie that ruins several former good characters. They're even ruining their own characters. The possible expansion is extremely limited.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Dec 23, 2017 0:59:17 GMT
Guardians 2 was really great. And unusually for a marvel film had a cool villain. That's just cuz Kurt Russell is amazing in everything. Ego as a villain has always been kinda "meh".
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 23, 2017 1:04:03 GMT
He was so perfectly cast. I wasn't sure what they would do for star lords dad but now I can't imagine it being anyone else.
I'm sure Ego in teh comics is pretty stupid, but this version was great.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 2:16:13 GMT
Hmm. I'm curious. How many of you have seen the original Star Wars films (at least one of them) in theatres? For me, no, I saw the VHS copies of the originals. How many consider yourselves hardcore Star Wars fans (or are considered such)? Not really. I only saw the originals (the unedited and late 90s special editions both) on VHS. I don't consider myself a big star wars fan, no. So I don't feel that Force Awakens ruined the franchise, or that there was even anything worthwhile in the expanded universe before Disney alderaan'ed it. Like you Canuovea the stuff that had the most promise to me was the stuff that tried to set about subverting long standing tropes or ideas in the franchise -- my frustration was it didn't actually subvert as much as it had the promise to (at least, in my opinion, the only really big subversion at the end I felt was Rey's parents... but I'm skeptical that stays). It's very much star wars! SW made from the view from nowhere, but still. It's interesting that of those of us that disliked it we disliked it for different and often contradictory reasons, at any rate.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Dec 23, 2017 3:06:21 GMT
Of the OT I saw all of them in the theaters. Admittedly I was a bit young to appreciate A New Hope as anything other than lasers and space ships, but Empire really captured my young mind (I remember being aghast how it ended and that I'd have to wait for the next one). Like most everyone else that grew up in that era I also saw all the made for television spin offs (Caravan of Courage, The Battle for Endor, and even the boring Holiday Special) when they first aired. Endor being the first real disappointment for me regarding Star Wars, as it rendered the end of Caravan as pointless and making me feel ill and unable to enjoy the film.
Still, the OT was a big part of growing up. I had a lot of the action figures and even the "Read Along" vinyl record books of the movies that I listened to quite often.
Out of the prequels I've only seen The Phantom Menace in theaters. I went with my gf of the time and ended up getting talked into paying for her sister and boyfriend as well. Considering I paid 4 times to see a movie that was underwhelming only once, I swore off the other two until they went to cable.
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Post by mitchca on Dec 26, 2017 22:37:11 GMT
I think there is defiantly a age difference that is how it affects how people see this movie. There are the people that have grown up on the OT and know how the main characters are suppose to be and questionning how could this happen. Then there are the people that are younger and they seem to just go with the flow.
I went to see it with a friend who is 25 and two of his friends that are younger, they were saying how brilliant it was and couldn't wait for the next one. I on the other hand kept quiet and just said it was "different".
I just couldn't beleive that Supreme Leader Snoke, could be killed in such a way that doesn't add to his character or put up a fight, other than trying to make the auidence think that Ben is under his control. He could "connect Ben and Rey" over lightyears, but couldn't see what was happening right next to him? Even Obi Wan could sense danger in Padme's room next door so who is this guy, how did he come into power and if hes that weak why didn't Ben do it before. Take power stop all the conflict and stick two fingers up at Luke by saying hey I killed a Sith I have power but am using it for good, granted taking the power for himself is selfish but he is willing to share it in The Last Jedi and willing to share it with a light force user...
With the intro I was thinking so its a remake of The Empire Strikes back and I was there thinking could Ben be Rey's father ? or even better Snoke. Thankfully it was completely different but in a bad way. I personally feel the Force Awaken's is a re-make of A New Hope. I could go on but saw it a week ago and I am forgetting most of what I saw.
My prediction for the third is Rey going to turn evil, Ben redeems himself by killing Rey and Yoda creates a new Jedi Order after all he can burn stuff down already not sure if he can be seen by people he doesn't know too well but at the end of The Return of the Jedi Anakin was seen by Luke and they were seperated at birth (kind of bummed by the fact that the Anakin Character hasn't been used as a Force Ghost to either stop Ben going Dark or helping Luke with his decision to try to kill Ben or get him to not go off to be a hermit.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 27, 2017 22:20:58 GMT
My only guess for the next film is that any plot points raised here will be ignored in the next one, as its back with JJ again. After how all the predictions and reading too much meaning into things turned out this time, I tend to assume its all meaningless and they are making it all up as they go along...because they are.
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Post by StyxD on Dec 27, 2017 22:52:24 GMT
It would be hilarious if JJ trashed most plot points from this movie as revenge.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 27, 2017 23:01:25 GMT
Okay now THAT would be entertaining! Especially if its really overt and incredibly childish.
"Yeah okay so Snoke ISN'T dead! And...and...it turns out Kylo DOESN'T have a connection to Rey! Yeah take that! And then I'll add a new character called Rian Johnson...wait that's too obvious. Ray-oon Joonstone...yeah that better no one will get that...adn he's CGI and talking like Jar Jar adn he's renown in the galaxy for making shit sequals! Yes! Ignore my lose plot points, will you? REVENGE IS MINE!"
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