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Post by RED_NED on Dec 22, 2017 9:17:15 GMT
I watched the originals in the cinema when they did the special editions. It added loads of useless crap, but seeing star wars on the big screen was great. It also meant I got the film experience so wasn't as hyped for the prequels, which i'm sure wasn't their intent.
I grew up watching star wars endlessly on VHS, so in my eyes that's where star wars should flourish, at home on the small screen after repeated viewings.
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 10:37:02 GMT
Also a good point made last page at the end.
I quite liked Force Awakens and enjoyed the characters. It wasn't perfect, but it was nice. This one was better, but maybe I thought so because I enjoyed what came before. I mean, if you didn't like Force Awakens, and didn't give a damn about the characters, then I don't see why you'd like this one.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 10:49:47 GMT
I think I only saw the prequals in cinema.
To me the fact I liked force awakens was part ofwhat made me not like this, since it subverts force awakens as much as it subverts the originals. The character relations aren't there as they split them all up, several characters act totally differnetly now (hux and Snoke are basically completely new characters) and all the mysteries that were set up are subverted.
Honestly though, getting all this "did it kill the franchise" is kinda beside the point to me. JUst as its own movie it was shit. Damaging the franchise was less the problem to me so much as it just being massively disappoitning and stupid. The stupid forced humour in every scene (Rey goes from getting flustered by Kylo not having a shirt on to calling him a monsters in the space of ten seconds) leading ot awkward tonal shifts. The First order being a big joke and not scary at all. The casino planet mission and the mutiny plot being pointless filler to give the characters something to do that don't amount to anything. The boring space ship chase that felt like old people driving in a really slow car chase. The recycling of old ideas like the emperors throne room and the final battle being the Hoth battle redone.
It was just a shit movie. Even if I really loved hte twists, all the other faults are still there.
Funny observation- I assumed Snoke gave Kylo his helmet to signifiy him turning to evil, but apparantly the helmet was just something Kylo started wearing on his own one day becuase he thought it looked cool. Like he just showed up one day and Snoke thought it was stupid. Imagine the conversation Snoke- What the fuck is that on your head? Kylo- Its my helmet Snoke- Why...why the fuck are you wearing a helmet? We're indoors, there's no battle happening. Kylo- I thoguht... I thought everyone in the first order got helemts Snoke- What? What the fuck are you talking about? I dont have a stupid helmet KYlo- Well all the storm troopers get them, I thought you liked helmets. Snoke- I gave them those becuse I Thought it was funny. They look like a duck had sex with an Iphone, why would you model your look on them? Kylo- Well you show up to work in a gold dressing gown, I thoguht we could wear what we want. Snoke- For fucks sake, even Hux has enough dignity not to show up in a fucking mask. You look like a vader cosplayer! Kylo_ *excited* really? You think so? Snoke- Look....look we'll talk about this later. I need you to go catch this Poe guy.
A few minutes later after kylo leaves
Snoke- Oh shit hes goign to wear that thing out in public isn't he? This is so emabarassing...
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 11:06:55 GMT
I figured the mutiny plot was actually essential to Poe's development.
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Post by RED_NED on Dec 22, 2017 11:19:52 GMT
My point was that Force Awakens ruined the franchise. It was a fine (even good) Sci-Fi flick, but set the series up for failure.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 21:07:48 GMT
Well obviously what people like is subjective, so if people liked some or all of the film, thats a good thing. Though I'm right. Clearly.
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Post by StyxD on Dec 22, 2017 21:15:05 GMT
It feels like waking up on Christmas and opening your presents and they are all empty. I mean yeah, its surprising, but in more of a "oh you didn't bother, this is shit" way. I think this analogy is spot on. The main problem I have with lauding this kind of subversion as good writing, I realized, is that it's empirically indistinguishable from bad writing. Yeah, you can read it as "Yes, Snoke never mattered, it's the point we're making!" but you can also read it as "Yeah, we have no idea what to do with this shit from Force Awakens and we're too inept to write around it, uh… #killthepast, everyone, woohoo!" Also, you're lucky, Can, that you hated Snoke enough to enjoy that he was killed. I just didn't give enough of a shit about him or First Order, and kind of, well, hoped maybe this movie would change my mind, but it wasn't meant to be. People struggled to believe players would make such choices. That was before Shy'Rotha, though. Now we know that it's just how you RP at Hark's table. I mean, I would also think that Shy is a GMPC that's meant to lead players into quests when they're milling around too much. I mean, if you didn't like Force Awakens, and didn't give a damn about the characters, then I don't see why you'd like this one. I can think of one reason. FA was a huge serving of nothing, but it was nicely wrapped and not offensive, at least not for me. I thought that after the overly safe first movie that was nevertheless well liked they're going to do something more interesting and risky in the second one… but I'm not liking what I'm hearing. Kylo Ren was the only character that I found interesting. Finn was… alright, I guess? At least he had some conflict to his story, unlike Rey. I liked Poe… but he was barely in it. Rey was bland as all hells, but then again, it's pretty common for all the Luke Skywalkers and Harry Potters of the genre. To answer your questions, Can: I've only watched the original trilogy on broadcast tv, once, many years ago. I don't really remember much from them, except that I liked Empire Strikes Back the best and that I was disappointed, on the overall. So much hype and the movies were… alright, I guess. And I've watched the prequels this year with a friend. They were rather badly written, and the first two were completely pointless, but I weirdly liked them. More than Force Awakens, I suppose. The new trilogy really couldn't care less about worldbuilding. I'm not considering myself a fan of Star Wars, not really. I only ever considered KotOR 2 to be compelling, but if I think about it now, I kind of always liked the weird (and kind of cheesy) space opera atmosphere or the franchise as a whole, not any single work. And so far, the new trilogy is just not delivering for me. It really just seems like they don't give a damn. They probably don't. Plus, I was always someone who was just good at nitpicking, as Hark can probably attest. I did think Rouge One was pretty alright in that regard, though. Maybe because it was more or less set in the time period when the world still made sense; before Force Awakens kind of ruined it.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 21:40:34 GMT
I like this StyxD! Its like I roleplay in such a way I make you reimagine what rolaplying is like. Some would argue its such a mess that I make you reimagine how bad an rpg character can be...but they would be uncharitable!
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 22:01:51 GMT
A friend of my girlfriend hasn't seen it yet but noticed that of his friends they either love it or hate it... and the hardcore fans hate it more often than the more casual friends.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 22:05:11 GMT
I think I'm a pretty casual fan. I like Star Wars and all but I'm not mad for it. Red Ned is more of a proper fan than me I think.
I was very fired up for this film and was going in with as litle knowledge as possible so I would have no spoilers.
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Post by Horsie on Dec 22, 2017 22:14:19 GMT
I bet StyxD has been writing his replies dressed in his Stormtrooper armour
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 22:21:09 GMT
I wrote all mine in Yoda speech than had to translate them.
Shit movie is. Disney cash grab I would say Hmmm? Want to see next one I do not!
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 22:22:44 GMT
It was an interesting observation, though doesn't seem to hold up here.
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Post by Harkovast on Dec 22, 2017 22:28:14 GMT
IT makes sense in the sense that someone who is more invested in the movie would be more annoyed by its faults and problems. If you aren't super invested whats happening and just want to see some space ships and ray guns, then you are going to be less critical of the specifics.
Not saying thats all you wanted, but I think thats the explanation for that trend you are seeing.
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Post by Canuovea on Dec 22, 2017 22:33:53 GMT
Considering how we were thinking about the themes and character development in the film for some time after the film, I doubt we were there for fancy flashy graphics. And in fact, I think some of the stuff in FA was better in that respect. The wide shot lightsaber fights were decent, but that was okay. The space battles were over pretty early really.
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