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Post by Tech on Apr 24, 2015 14:50:41 GMT
um simple question. is it just me or did anyone else forget this was happening? I saw the new trailer the other day and had completely forgot that this movie was coming out.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2015 1:56:31 GMT
I'm aware of it, but I'm very skeptical of it being any good. Man of Steel was kind of a mess and Affleck doesn't strike me as Batman material.
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Post by zaealix on Apr 25, 2015 2:22:26 GMT
Frankly, I feel like the trouble is Superman hasn't been handled well in a very long time, and I suspect half the problem is people kinda get hung up on his invulnerability. Like he's either SUPERMAN, and just gets to put on his hero-pants and save everyone...Oooor he runs into those things he can't deal with, and basically goes down like a chump. This dynamic makes him very boring insofar as fights go, and thus writers try to give him angst, and things he needs to work through...Which then has to compete with the 'it's SUPERMAN, we're saved!' that has to occur.
Part of me feels like this Superdog cartoon I remember awhile back had a bit more fun with it. Like instead of just going 'ooh kryptonite! Can someone save Superman?' They had Red kryptonite, which...IDK what it's canonically supposed to do? But in the cartoon it had all sorts of wild effects, and seemingly randomized in what it did as well. That's something that coould help. Another thought is this: The Man of Steel, at least from my viewpoint, was always meant to to deal with things like 'oh no! A Giant Dinosaur is attacking the city!' But with the way Superman is nowadays this unstoppable invincible champion unless he's blasted with kryptonite or magic...You can't really challange him with a physical threat. It rings hollow, if for no other reason than all you're really doing is knocking him around before he finally punches your bad guy sky-high. Tone down the invulnerability, he's the Man of Steel, not Invincible Man. While he might still not care about gunfire, maybe not being able to shrug off getting stepped on by a giant robot could be a thing. Maybe he doesn't quiiiite cut it? But still does the lion's share of the work-this could kinda work what with being as much a symbol as a superhero.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2015 4:23:26 GMT
The problem is that Superman doesn't lend himself well to a serious story. It's hard to believe that Superman and Batman can even exist in the same universe. Gotham and Metropolis don't even look like they belong in the same time period and/or planet. You can have a brooding, dark, realistic story about Batman and have it feel real, but Superman really needs to be played with a lighter tone if you want him to be a superhero. Too realistic and he just becomes this godlike being inflicting his will upon humanity because they can't stop him.
Given the Superman that they gave us in Man of Steel, what makes anyone think that Batman even stands a chance against that monster? Prolly end up getting his neck snapped.
Oh, and Lex Luthor is supposed to be in BvS. I guess Superman will break his neck too.
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Post by Tech on Apr 26, 2015 2:31:15 GMT
I'm not a superman fan by any means so I'm very disinterested in this movie (likely why I forgot it was coming out) but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like some Superman story lines. I think the problem is that film makers think that only a dark hero will sell because it worked with Batman. I don't want to see superman being batman I want superman being superman. as much as Superman Returns was a bad film I still enjoy watching through it for the scenes I see as "true Superman scenes", stopping the plane from crashing, stopping the mini-gun bank thief, those scenes I can watch over and over again and never bet bored.
Bottom line I want a fun Superman
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 26, 2015 4:09:29 GMT
I was really on board with Superman Returns up through the part where Lois Lane faints on the airplane escape slide. It was light, it was fun, it was exciting, and it felt like the characters I knew. It had great "Superman" moments with him saving both the shuttle and the airplane as it crumbled apart. Bringing it down safe right in the middle of a baseball game. Great stuff. Then the movie completely changed it's tone. We had to watch this uncomfortable scene with Superman stalking Lois and her family at home. It gave me a creepy vibe that I just couldn't shake for the rest of the movie. Plus Luthor's real estate scheme was one of those "Again?" moments. Couldn't come up with something new?
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Post by Canuovea on Apr 26, 2015 4:20:45 GMT
Am I the only one who liked the neck snapping in Man of Steel? I mean, they kind of wasted it, but it could be used as a turning point in Superman's character development, inspiring him to not kill anyone ever again. Then again, it was "snappy! Scream!" then they cut to Supes blowing up a drone.
The opening to Man of Steel was also neat. I personally think that they should have just told the story of Zod and Jor-El running around and fighting Krypton's enemies, while slowly becoming aware of the new threat to Krypron... maybe Jor-El tells Zod about it, opening up about his fears, and Zod shares his concern but decides to deal with things his way (the military coup way). It would be far more interesting to see how Zod became what he did, as the movie hinted that Zod was once a good guy, but he really spent the entire film as an obvious villain.
Most of the rest of Man of Steel was meh, was illogical, and the fight at the end put my girlfriend to sleep.
But frankly, like Tech said, I don't really care that much for BvS. And I'm beginning to think that Marvel's Daredevil is doing Batman better than Batman did.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 26, 2015 4:51:19 GMT
The problem with the neck snapping is that it's not set up. Superman doesn't really seem to have a problem with killing in Man of Steel. He just committed genocide of his own people and he's clobbering down buildings with no regard for who might be in them or under them just to get Zod. That he broke his neck is not really a shock and just cements him as the monster we've been building up to the entire movie.
Now they're going to serve us up a movie with Batman in it where the two will presumably make amends after trading blows for a while and come to the conclusion that Lex Luthor is the real enemy because he wants Superman dead. Considering what happened in the first movie wanting Superman dead seems to be reasonable.
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Post by Canuovea on Apr 26, 2015 4:59:52 GMT
I dunno. We hadn't really seen him kill an actual person to that point. Though I suppose you might assume such during the fight with Zod and knocking down buildings and so on. But he had gone out of his way to be saving people a lot of the time, that is set up in the film. Early though.
And technically, the Genesis Device, or whatever, wasn't exactly a person. Though it was odd that he destroyed it, I thought.
At the same time, he clearly didn't want to kill Zod. Zod obviously forced him to do it.
He didn't come across as a monster to me. A little dull, maybe, but not a monster.
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Post by Tech on Apr 26, 2015 12:21:44 GMT
I didn't mind the neck snapping scene, I feel if there was less city destruction by Superman then that kill Zod scene would of been more impactful and like you said Can, give him a reason to never kill again. the whole fight they had was just boring and side note you should not make New York City people leave the theater crying because it reminded some of 9/11, people should never leave a superman movie thinking about 9/11, this actually happened and that's fucked up.
with how dark and stuff they made Superman in Man of Steel, honestly if they wanted to make him Batman they should of just gone and made a film version of Speeding Bullet, it's a Superman one shot like RedSun, Clark lands in the backyard of the Waine family so they never have Bruce, thing is though that when the parents get gunned down Clark looses his shit and basically becomes The Punisher
you know what would be cool, Retcon that shit and just go and make Zod superman, no really that's a thing. instead of Klank shot to earth its Zod and he's a good guy, he's not about to let a second home come to the fate of his original. I mainly want this because out of all the characters in Man of Steel Zod was the only one I enjoyed from start to finish, the actor was amazing and I want to see him in the role of Zod again
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Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 26, 2015 14:51:48 GMT
Oh, BTW:
My cousin is supposed to be an extra in Batman vs Superman. I don't know too much about it because he couldn't say, but he gave me enough info to figure some of it out. They did some shooting at Wayne State in Detroit cuz it's already got the right name and Detroit has a certain look that fits with the Gotham setting. My cousin happened to be on a casting list and got a call to come in for a few days. I guess he's playing a student or something.
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Post by Canuovea on Apr 26, 2015 19:49:41 GMT
I think a Man of Steel prequel with Russel Crowe and the guy who played Zod really would be better, as I said.
Further... I know Zod was supposed to have limited imagination because he was a warrior and that is how he was genetically selected (proving, once and for all, that Kryptonians are idiots. Generals without imagination? The heck?). However, it made no sense for him to want to fight the humans. None. I mean, not only "why terraform the planet when brief exposure to it turns you into gods" but also "there are other planets in the Solar System to terraform, right?" Or should it be Kryptoform? Whatever. It seems that Zod went all genocidal for no good logical reason.
I don't know if I care for the super dark direction DC is going with all this. Plus, Daredevil is doing it better.
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Post by Tech on Apr 27, 2015 10:21:08 GMT
I think DC should maybe just stick with its animated movies because it doesn't seem to know how to compete with the Marvel live action movies.
though at at least they haven't fucked up Green Arrow yet in that Arrow show.
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Post by Canuovea on Apr 27, 2015 18:58:25 GMT
As long as they make money from it, they'll keep doing it.
And lets face it, they're going to keep making money.
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Post by Tech on Apr 27, 2015 20:19:08 GMT
sad but true, they aim for people that just want Mega-explosions and "intense action scenes" to hopefully make enough money the first day to make another
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