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Post by Tech on Jun 18, 2015 6:52:53 GMT
I figured if people cared enough I could shed some light on a little place called Quebec and why it should be avoided due to its very anti-english culture that has sprung up in the 50s and took off in the late 70s
clearly though if no one cares I wont waste my time
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 18, 2015 8:54:38 GMT
What's a "Quebec"?
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Post by Tech on Jun 18, 2015 15:43:30 GMT
well its a province inside Canada that is doing its best to separate itself from the rest of Canada by drawing on its french history as a way for the population to distance themselves from other Canadians.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 18, 2015 17:45:59 GMT
Quebec has a long history of being contrary and they have constantly been terrified of attack on the French language and their culture. Admittedly, this is a fairly justified fear, or at least it was. Canada only really started jumping on the multicultural bandwagon with Trudeau Sr. who also made French one of the two official languages of Canada (well, officially, as I said).
And even after everyone was like "yay for multiculturalism!" we were still trying to obliterate First Nations, Inuit, and Metis culture via residential schools and forced adoptions. Last government run residential school (sites of abuse of various kinds, stabbing kids in the tongue with needles when they spoke their language for instance, and with up to 60% mortality rate sometimes) was closed in 1996. The last privately run one was shut down in 1998. So Canada doesn't have a great track record when it comes to accepting other cultures. It is easy to see why Quebec was worried.
And it goes back far before the 60s too. Quebec and Ontario almost never agreed on anything, such as drafts or what was being done to the Metis (who are a mostly French speaking group of people who come from the mixing of European and First Nations). We're talking since and even before Confederation. It makes one wonder what Sir John A MacDonald was thinking about Confederation when he then went on to do his best to ignore almost half the damn country.
In the 60s, or just prior, Quebec began lashing out against the conservative authority of the Church and the local elite. This "Quiet Revolution" was a step forward in my opinion. It did result in Quebec being more openly boisterous again.
See, one thing that much of Canada resents about Quebec is how the Federal Government will negotiate with the Provinces, then Quebec will railroad or drop out. Then the Feds make a deal with the rest of Canada before turning around and negotiating one on one with Quebec, who ends up getting a better deal (and most of the transfer funds from the other "have" provinces). Hell, Quebec isn't even the only French speaking province. New Brunswick has a policy of bilingualism and French and English are pretty much both required, unlike other provinces who half ass French in their education system.
Then there are the separatists. Oh god the separatists.
The fact is, most of the Quebecois I've met have been wonderful people, and generally not keen on the whole separation movement, thing (though you could want to separate and still be a wonderful person). And last Federal election the separatists were knocked down to like 2 seats in the House of Commons. Yes... the separatist party was very recently a major power in Federal Politics, not just Provincial. So make of that what you will.
And I feel it would be a shame for Quebec to separate. We have a fascinating, if bumpy, history together. Our economy is better together. Quebec is responsible for something like half our military. They contribute an awesome culture and Canada is finally getting around to accepting other peoples and cultures, so Quebec has less to fear...
That all being said, Quebec has done some pretty dickish things in the name of culture and language. They actually had/have language police that were put in place by the Provincial Separatist Party. Sound bad? An Italian restaurant got in trouble with them for having the word "pasta" in either their name or menu. Also keep in mind that while most of Quebec are Francophone (French is their first language), there is a sizeable minority who are Anglophone (and you can imagine how much fun they've been having over the years). Ironically Quebec, who so fears to be persecuted for its language and culture, ends up persecuting parts of its own populace for their language and culture.
My mother and father visited Quebec a little while ago (while visiting family in Ontario) and had a great time. I think they ended up avoiding Montreal though, just drove through it and went to Quebec City. Anyway, the people were nice and things went swimmingly! But that doesn't invalidate the horror stories others have to tell about their treatment at the hands of the prickliest province (I think I'm going to trademark that phrase).
In conclusion: Quebec has a venerable and worthwhile culture that they should be proud of. But so do the other Provinces. The Maritime Provinces are hilariously different from Ontario, Quebec, The Prairies, and BC for instance, never mind the North! Just because most of them speak English primarily doesn't mean they're the same and should be treated the same.
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Post by Tech on Jun 19, 2015 0:57:35 GMT
Living here in Quebec as someone who is english is not fun, I've spent most of my life here and have been at the hands of those who don't take kindly to the english.
The english population only makes up about 6-7% of the total population and english is not even viewed as an official language in Quebec. The language police are still very much a thing here and they can ruin your day quite fast over some of the dumbest things. Like it is illegal to have a sign not in French on your store and if you do have a sign in another language it must be 30% smaller then the French one. Also rather silly is that someone can complain to a manager if someone spoke English to them, this actually happened resently where a girl spoke English on her break and her boss fired her, and a bit more close to home my brother had a complaint filed against him where he worked because he answered a woman in english.
Montreal is about the most friendly place in Quebec to the English but God forbid you go to Magog, my family and I have had more then a few run ins with unfriendly french peoplw in that city.
the younger people are normally better with the English then the older generation is I've found.
something other then French treatment that sucks here is the taxes, Quebec has the cheepest schooling in all of Canada by far, I mean it cost me 160$ a semester for College and it will cost me 1000$ a semester for University, the schooling is one of only two reasons I've stuck around this long. but such cheep schooling comes at a price. the way taxing works is first they tax the product and then they tax the tax on it as well. for some perspective it costs about 2$ a chocolate bar here.
now though something I do like here is the best culture Quebec has, every store sells beer, corner stores, food stores and gas station at a much lower price then Ontario, I can but a case of 24 for about 30$ or so, sometimes cheaper depending, while in Ontario it's closer to 50$ for the same amount. but something more to my taste is that the SAQ (Alcohol Store of Quebec) does not tax it's Liquor so I get my 750ml scotch for a good cheep price
But when all is said and done this place is horrible and I rather not be here
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 19, 2015 1:49:29 GMT
That can't be fun at all.
Aside from the cheap education and alcohol. Well, I don't actually drink much alcohol, but I definitely envy the education cost.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 19, 2015 4:06:30 GMT
But when all is said and done this place is horrible and I rather not be here So I take it you're moving away as soon as you graduate?
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Post by Tech on Jun 19, 2015 5:23:22 GMT
well it really depends on the next few months as well as the schooling, cheap or not saving up still needs to be done and I'm looking at becoming a teacher of English or history which in quebec is a four year university program (only quebec has a system where a teaching degree is required to teach) and sure I could move, do schooling and still try to be a teacher but the schooling here is cheaper and it has a more direct path into teaching.
then there is the family issue not with my family as much as with my wife's family (not married but easier to call her that then woman I live and have a daughter with), all her family is here, her friends are here and it's not fair to her to guilt her into leaving her life behind because I'm unhappy in Quebec. I need to put her happiness ahead of mine because it's kinda my fault she's a hard working mom at a young age and she needs someone like me who can be a stay at home dad when not in school. and then there is also our sick daughter and here we know the doctors and know where to go for all the important stuff and honestly setting up in a new location and starting all the medical headache stuff all over again doesn't seem worth it.
over all all a lot of family and person stuff keeps me here
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 19, 2015 6:07:21 GMT
That's a pretty good list of reasons to stay put. But, uhhh...
Why haven't you married this woman yet? If you're calling her your wife you might as well make it official.
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Post by Tech on Jun 19, 2015 11:42:26 GMT
because I don't actually call her that and I made it clear to her my fillings on weddings and how pointless and dumbly expensive they are. I will never waste money on some over priced ring, it's just not happening and as far as I know she's okay with it, she's never brought it up anyway.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 19, 2015 17:00:36 GMT
Yeah, definitely good reasons to stay.
I'm finishing up a one year teaching program over here, but you need an undergrad degree to take that program.
My girlfriend and I find marriage to be an interesting thing in theory, but more a reason to have a party and get relatives to not bother us (which will undoubtedly begin as soon as we move in together). The rest of what goes into marriage is more a state of mind than a sacrament, at least how we see things.
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Post by Tech on Jun 20, 2015 2:20:52 GMT
parents can be a bother, it was for us, catholic Irish and catholic French, oh boy you can just imagine the fun that was to deal with when the whole "she's pregnant" thing happen
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 20, 2015 4:46:38 GMT
Yeah. You have my sympathy on that matter. I've seen Catholic guilt in action and it is not pretty. I'm virtually immune, but... well this person has Italian Catholic step family and pre-Vatican 2 style German American Catholic. And sometimes even when they don't mean to guilt, they do.
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Post by wordweaver3 on Jun 20, 2015 5:08:17 GMT
The cornerstone of the Catholic faith is guilt, there's no doubt about it. They get so ingrained with guilt that they don't even realize that they're doing it most of the time.
Regarding marriage, personally I find it appalling that we need permission from the government to marry the one we love. The whole concept of a "marriage license" is insane.
That being said, the rest of the world seems to think it's necessary, so it does offer you certain legal protections. Now you don't have to have a 10,000 dollar diamond ring and spend 80 grand on a wedding to be married. You can just go before a judge and they'll do it for pretty darn cheap.
Let's imagine (heaven forbid) that something happened to your daughter's mother. If she were to pass and her parents fought you for legal custody of your daughter they may have more legal standing than you do. I'm not entirely sure how it works in Canada, but it's possible. What's more if something were to happen to either of you and the doctors need permission to perform a dangerous surgery, or whatever, they will be going to your parents for that permission.
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Post by Canuovea on Jun 20, 2015 5:54:57 GMT
Marriage as an institution is basically several things on several different levels. At least how I see it.
Socially, it is a declaration that you are a couple and not much more, yet of course that has significance to a lot of people, generally meaning you are off the market, for instance.
Legally, it is simply a way to simplify things for the government when it comes to taxes and other interests. Basically, this is why you can end up married to someone just for living with them long enough. Of course, this results in some benefits (sometimes like lower taxes).
Religiously, it is, uh... tied up with the social stuff I guess? Which is a damn shame, because that just makes things difficult for everyone. I mean, people use religious definitions for marriage to contradict social and/or legal definitions all the time (think Gay Marriage). It gets ridiculous.
Personally, it is a personal commitment between those involved and a kind of state of mind. The government, society, and religion can go fuck themselves. They've got nothing to do with this level at all. So in a sense, you don't need government or social or priestly sanction to get married.
In my humble opinion, it is best to be at that personal level before bothering with any of the other ones (if you even wish to). I know some people who just up and lived together and never bothered making it official. But that legal stuff sure can be a nice incentive. Rights... tax breaks...
Of course, Tech, you're not in the best of situations as a (cheap, priest free) secular marriage probably wouldn't cut it with Catholic parents.
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