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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 2:04:45 GMT
Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2017 2:04:45 GMT
No guarantee Bernie would have delivered on anything he promised either. He's not exactly an outsider, been in politics most of his life. Probably plays the game by the same rules as everyone else.
One thing you can always count on is not being able to count on a politician.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 2:39:09 GMT
Post by Harkovast on Apr 25, 2017 2:39:09 GMT
Yeah he might have sold out horribly. There is sometimes the terrible sense that who ever you vote for, you get fucked over. Politics can feel like moving deck chairs on the titanic.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 5:13:24 GMT
Post by TempestFennac on Apr 25, 2017 5:13:24 GMT
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 6:05:00 GMT
Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2017 6:05:00 GMT
Talk about stepping in it and then putting your foot in your mouth.
That's exactly what people don't want to hear, that you can't do anything about it. If you offer nothing and nobody votes for you who the fuck's fault is that?
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 6:12:37 GMT
Post by Canuovea on Apr 25, 2017 6:12:37 GMT
Well, he might be telling the truth.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 7:04:39 GMT
Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2017 7:04:39 GMT
To say you can do nothing is to admit failure. Even if it is the truth.
Failure is not a selling point. People don't want failure. Even a lie is preferable to admitted failure. One might say he's honest, but the counter point would be he's too stupid to know when to lie.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 7:59:10 GMT
Post by TempestFennac on Apr 25, 2017 7:59:10 GMT
Exactly, Word. Besides, there's plenty of other things which can be done (eg: do something to raise living standards in the mostly Islamic ghettos which a lot of supposed islamic terrorists grow up in, which would probably involve doing something constructive like building better housing and improving education and trying to encourage businesses which people living there can commute to, and doing something about illegal drugs being as a lot of these people seem to like taking those, maybe have proper border checks to reduce the chances of random IS-aligned people just sauntering into France). Of course, those would require him to accept that there are problems while having the will to deal with then.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 9:28:54 GMT
Post by wordweaver3 on Apr 25, 2017 9:28:54 GMT
Right. There are plenty of things that can be done, there just aren't any easy solutions. If the guy is gonna straight up admit the job is too hard for him than he shouldn't be surprised if that affects how many people vote for him.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 12:38:39 GMT
Post by Harkovast on Apr 25, 2017 12:38:39 GMT
Okay look there can't be literally nothing anyone can do! I mean...what the hell we just have to accept things that make society worse because that's just the way it is?
Well said! Have 50 harko points, Fennac.
It feels less like ideas have been tried and found wanting and more like ideas have been found difficult and left untried.
I mean to say there is literally nothing that can be done...how can anyone be expected to vote for such a message? Like we're past the point of even TRYING to change things? Promising things will stay as bad as they are now or maybe get worse, that is what the left has been reduced to?
What the hell happened to hope and change? Obama didn't get 8 years by going "well what do you expect me to do about it?"
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 12:54:38 GMT
Post by TempestFennac on Apr 25, 2017 12:54:38 GMT
Thanks. I would say the problem with relying on hope is that it alone isn't going to change anything (I'm probably in a minority regarding how voters tend to think if Scott Adam's blog posts explaining how Trump's persuasion style works is accurate, but I tend to prefer to know how people intend to achieve aims rather than just the aims). This actually reminds me of The Sun, and other people, complaining about Corbyn's apparent desire to know how killing the IS leader with drone strikes will benefit the situation in Syria before authorising it; never mind the fact that his death isn't going to just cause IS to implode on itself unless everyone else is completely useless at organising their activities*, or the fact that any civilian casualties will just encourage more people to join IS. Really, I'd say that was the most sensible thing Corbyn has said since becoming Labour Leader.
*I'm assuming we're not in a video game or movie where killing a crime boss/dictator/terrorist leader automatically leads to their forces being defeated completely soon after their death.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 18:50:39 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 18:50:39 GMT
Interesting results from the first round by age.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 19:48:15 GMT
Post by Canuovea on Apr 25, 2017 19:48:15 GMT
Saying "we're going to increase the standard of living in the Islamic Ghettos!" as the solution will do the opposite of get anyone elected in this situation.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 20:19:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 20:19:16 GMT
The idea that nothing can be done is so pointless, and explains why so many people have tuned out of politics entirely, if thats the best defense that can be mustered up for the status quo.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 21:12:28 GMT
Post by Canuovea on Apr 25, 2017 21:12:28 GMT
Frankly, even if they elect Le Pen and she tries to do things, I don't see how anything she says is going to reduce the fact that they're going to be living with terrorism for some time yet. Its like Trump saying building a wall will stop illegal immigrants. If anything, its going to make the situation worse.
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Le Pen
Apr 25, 2017 21:30:04 GMT
Post by Horsie on Apr 25, 2017 21:30:04 GMT
One of the biggest problems the French have is that so many of the immigrants, especially the youth, feel like they don't belong, like the native French are trying to push them to the fringes of society. If Le Pen wins and follows through with her promises then they won't just feel marginalized, the government will have adopted a policy of marginalization and treating them like enemies, and that's going to push even more people into the arms of extremists.
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